Dr. Squat - Dr. Fred Hatfield

No the powerlifter can't but the olympic lifter can or at least has a better chance!

I mostly do olympic style squats because it feels natural for me. I've noticed that powerlifters tend to squat slowly and use a wider stance with more back.

I personally haven't tried the powerlifting squat. Can you use an olympic squat in a powerlifting competition??

Yes..you can do either OLYMPIC or POWER.

I do both. In competition, I do power.

I dont think either is harder. I think its relative to the way you move the weight. Ive seen Olympic weightlifters try to squat power style and do very badly, but do very well Olympic style.

I remember when YURI SPINOV, former RUSSIAN SUPER HEAVYWEIGHT squatted I think 914 lbs, NO belt, OLYMPIC style, buried at the IPF WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS IN 1995.

I think what i do believe, is that Olympic style squatter's, generally are DEEPER, than most Power squatters, who arent in fact deep.

I also know, that almost EVERy powerlifter ive ever met, if they havent done any olympic squatting, are TERRIBLE at it, no matter what their degree of strenght or ability.

IF you want to see what a powerlifter is made of? ask him to do a 135 lbs SNATCH SQUAT. ( 800 lbs squatters cant do it 99.99% of the time)

Fortunately, I can still..but its a real toughie trying to hold that bar over the top in position, even just the bar. Takes ALOT of flexibitly.

ROCKY TILSON

Indy Power Team

we should almost throw this question out every time it comes up or put it in the q&a section. the answer is if each was given enough time to work on the new tech. they could probably do it .

i don't know why this is so important to some people oh its because they can't squat a 1000lbs with any tech. or style.

this is not about me trying to tell everyone i can squat a 1000lbs .

i think if you've been on this forum long enough you know were this thread is headed .

this is one of those topic that creep up every 3 month when we're bored and never gets resolved.

it's power-lifters verses weightlifter , gear verses raw , power verses strength.

i think asking a question like that makes know sense neither one is working the same discipline .

this is like asking who has better taste in women me or you it all depends on to many things.

I do both. In competition, I do power.

I dont think either is harder. I think its relative to the way you move the weight. Ive seen Olympic weightlifters try to squat power style and do very badly, but do very well Olympic style.

I remember when YURI SPINOV, former RUSSIAN SUPER HEAVYWEIGHT squatted I think 914 lbs, NO belt, OLYMPIC style, buried at the IPF WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS IN 1995.

I think what i do believe, is that Olympic style squatter's, generally are DEEPER, than most Power squatters, who arent in fact deep.

I also know, that almost EVERy powerlifter ive ever met, if they havent done any olympic squatting, are TERRIBLE at it, no matter what their degree of strenght or ability.

IF you want to see what a powerlifter is made of? ask him to do a 135 lbs SNATCH SQUAT. ( 800 lbs squatters cant do it 99.99% of the time)

Fortunately, I can still..but its a real toughie trying to hold that bar over the top in position, even just the bar. Takes ALOT of flexibitly.

ROCKY TILSON

Indy Power Team

Rocky a lot of the inability to do olympic style lift relates to rage of motion not that their not strong enough to do these lifts.

when i was more flexible and had less shoulder problems i was able to snatch and press 315 on a regular basis.

now if i do them my shoulder is shot for about a month.

Because they see there 400 squat then see someone there same size doing 800 and get pissy.

if this forum is any indiction of who gets bent its weightlifters.

i don't think there's ever been a comment about who is better weightlifters or powerlifters by a powerlifter it's always the weightlifters that have the issues on who's better.

it seems weightlifters on this forum need to put powerlifting down so it makes the 400lb look better .

the truth is we don't care it what you do if it makes you happy fine .

other people are better qualified here. I struggle with both.

OL squat bar high on the back. You squat straight down so calves are touching hamstrings.

PL - varies shoulder stance or wider stances. Lean back by pushing the but back 6-8 inches . Then squat down to around a bit below parallel.
I think they tend to go a little above or more depending upon federations.
Also bigger mens legs may make depth difficult to judge.

John S. about your comment it's not a good one that's what I mean it's all about ego.

Your comprasion is ridiculous.

Powerlifters style is better for getting more weight to shorten the range of motion. Plus powerlifters use suits to get more weight. knee wraps etc

Second I have posted before olympic lifters with the same weight class as powerlifters getting almost the same weights what powerlifters gets without the gear! Powerlifting lifts were all invented because of Olympic lifting.

The guy just asked which one is better and I want to tell him the truth that's all.

Powelifting is for Powerlifters and Olympic weightlifting is for Olympic weightlifters.

I mean if you want to get more and more weight why don't you use a crane I think it still can get more weight than what humans are capable of :

Okey you could be right on that issue. But you know powerlifting is getting worse more and more. I should call it now ego lifting. I know these guys are probably one of the most strongest guys on earth and no one can denys that but come on are the numbers that important! They are just numbers! All that gear is just ridiculous.

Once again i'll say it if you want to lift more machines can still lift more than human.

Methodman, it only seems like powerlifters have ego's because they make up the majority of the people who talk on this board. It would be the same with olympic lifters, or any other type of strength athlete. It is a fact that there are a lot of big ego's here, but it's not fair to say it's just powerlifters in general, because it's not.

The Stone you are vey funny I didn't say you should quit powerlifting or something like that but the gear is just too ridiculous. I mean I have nothing against powerlifting. Without that excessive gear you wouldn't see that much 1000pounds squat nor you would see anyone that who is capable of benching over 1000pounds! That is my point. You do your thing I do my thing. This is just the truth if you don't like to hear the truth then that's your problem!

IT SEEMS FOR SOME REASON WEIGHTLIFTERS TEND TO THINK THAT POWER-LIFTERS STARTED OUT JUST DOING POWER-LIFTS.

JUST SO YOU KNOW WHEN I WAS 25 AND IN BODYBUILDING I USED TO OLYMPIC SQUAT 550 FOR REP OF 5 AT A BW OF 195LBS JUST BELT NO WRAPS.

IT IS ALSO INTERESTING THAT THE ONLY LIFT THAT IS EVER COMPARE WHEN TALKING ABOUT WHO IS BETTER IS THE SQUAT.

WHY NOT THE BENCH OR DEAD-LIFT THE THING IS MOST POWER-LIFTERS COME FROM A TRADITIONAL SQUAT BACK ROUND AND THEN CONVERT TO A POWER-LIFTING STYLE.

THE PHRASE A DOG CAN NOT SERVE TWO MASTERS APPLY HERE .

YOU CAN NOT EXPECT A LIFTER WHO PRACTICE ONE STYLE FOR YEARS TO PERFORM AT HIS BEST WITHOUT LOOSING SOME % OF PERFORMANCE IN A STYLE THAT IS FOREIGN TO HIM OR HER.

THAT'S WHY I SAY ITS A DUMB QUESTION AND REPETITIVE AND HAS BEEN DEBATED TO DEATH SINCE I'VE BEEN ON THIS FORUM.

I THINK TO MAKE ALL THE WEIGHTLIFTERS HAPPY WE AS POWER-LIFTERS SHOULD BE THE BIGGER ATHLETE SAY THAT THE WEIGHTLIFTERS ARE BETTER STRONGER AND FASTER THAN WE WILL EVER BE.

THIS WAY THEY CAN LEAVE US ALONE TO JACK BIG WEIGHTS BREAK RECORDS AND HAVE FUN IN OUR BAD ASS GEAR.

OH YEAH I THINK I CAN OUT LIFT A CRANE AS LONG AS I HAVE MY SUPER SUIT ON.

Why not alternate between sports, especially if you are slow off the ground and chest etc and can't use as much leverage as a taller guy. This might be highly detrimental to OLs but would it benefit a lot of powerlifters who are lighter. Charles, you yourself have a highly respectable snatch 315 above.

Is it better to have a background of deeper squats and then switch over?

The question being which is harder, not better or more indicative of athletic strength/power/moral superiority my answer would be that PL Squats are significantly harder. I do both, I do pl squats leading up to a comp, then after the comp, I switch to the olympic style. Comparing 3 rep maxes (I never PL squat more than 3 reps, nor OL squat less than 3 reps) i PL squat 500 x 3, OL squat 365 x 3. With 500lbs on my back, I am drooling, growling, popping blood vessels in my eyes and nose, and when I am done my head is spinning. The next day I feel like I got hit by a truck. After OL squats at 365 x 3, I am out of breath, legs shaky, and the next day I might have sore quads/glutes.

In my opinion, because of the different impact on the CNS due to the difference in weight handled, the PL squat is harder. Not better. If I didn't compete though, I would strictly Ol squat, as the recovery time is quicker, less impact to my immune system, and my various orifices never bleed.

LiOssoco, your logic is flawed, you must take into account the amount of weight being used for the exercise. Using your logic, e-z curls are harder than deadlifts. I use 120 lbs on the ez curl bar for 10 reps, which would be ridiculously easy to deadlift, but if I slapped 450 on the ez bar for curls, well, I might only get 5 or 6 reps....so curls are easier than deadlifts? of course not, cause you have to compare based on the weight you would use for similar rep ranges.
I feel certain that if someone were to train both, alternating, and applying the same level of dedication to each style, they would develop as I have, and use higher weights for PL squats than used on the OL squats.

Wow you can get 5 or 6 reps with 450 pound curls? I'm impressed.

And by the word 'harder' are having some fun with semantics.

Let's go back to logic and the two definitions of 'harder', neither of which is wrong.

Your definition of harder - that which causes you the most 'difficulty', stress to CNS, etc. An apt description. And as you state, the PL squat for 3 reps puts you in a bind, while the OL squat for 3 reps is hard but doesn't fatigue you overall as does the PL squat. So the PL squat is harder

My definition of harder - that which is more difficult to perform. Also an apt description. As I state, it would be easier for you to perform a PL squat with 365 than an OL squat with 365. And at 500 too. So the OL squat is harder

So we have been playing the semantic game. I was hoping nobody would notice

Using your example of curls and deadlifts, yes, curls are harder and they are easier too!
They are harder to lift big weight. Before my arm 'fell off' the other day, I could deadlift 500 strict and preacher curl 155 strict. So 155 is much harder for me to curl than to deadlift!
But curls are also easier because using a weight in which I can get 5 reps I will be moderately fatigued for curls, but 60 seconds later I can plop back down and do another set of 5 reps! After a set of 5 reps of a heavy weight of deadlifts it fatigues me throughout the whole body.

So we are both right. How's that for diplomacy?

Glad to hear your brush with a potentially bad situation worked out well! I have had stuff like that happen as well. I find dumbbell pullovers with a heavy dumbell (cross-bench pullovers) work great as a chiropractic adjustment.

Oh yeah, and you asked and I forgot to answer.

li0scc0 - This was my initial login when I started my first job

li - stands for log in

0 - means this is the first time they set up this login for me (i.e. if I returned to the company again it would have been a 1)

scc - my initials

0 - means that I was the only (or the first) person with my initials. If another person came along with my initials, they would have been a 1.

you know if you live long enough you realize what you think and what you know are not the same thing.

how can you determine leg strength between the to without testing each lifter.

methodman the lifter in that link is wearing wrist straps , knee sleeves and a belt.

i get the impression without the aid of the wrist straps the lift would not have been completed just my opinion.

i guess the reason you posted it was to prove that olympic lifters are stronger without gear.

the fact that he needed the straps should make that lift a non qualifier as an example as far as strength.

this on the other hand is an even heavier lift no wrist straps singlet and belt only.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oP8aFWAs9U

please explain why it's obvious and please do so with facts not the think so because.

i think your confusing explosive power with absolute strength olympic lifters do demonstrate and produce more power but not more absolute strength. there is a difference methodman i hope you know that.

I said they have more functional or stronger! Anyway they have it both!

If I compare powerlifter's world records geard versus the best olympic weightlifters I still see more lifter's squatting near the world records without that gear.

If you make the range shorter you'll probably be able to lift heavier you are just using physic laws to be stronger Just kidding but don't tell me that range and gear don't affect! Second pyrros dimas has back squatted 320kg 660punds raw and the world record with the gear is 355 781pounds.

Anyway you know in powerlifting squat you use your back more than in weightlifting squat which use the legs more! I remeber somone said that the lifter who has the best squat with gear has also the best raw! But it wasn't like that! Tony conyers has squatted gear 854pounds but his raw raw is over 600 pounds. He is one of the strongest guys in his bodyweight maybe even the strongest in squat I have so much respect to him but his raw was over 600 and probably not very deep I haven't seen it but I have seen how wide he squats! Weightlifters frontsquat near 600pounds raw in ironmind tapes and they back squat even more weight than his raw! I suggest you to buy ironmind tapes! you see how much the difference between his raw and his geard lifts!

Half squats half gain! Full squat full gain!

I compared pyrros dimas to that guy because his weight is exactly the same weight!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3075384427006412318 Powerlifters are not getting stronger you are just using new ways to handle heavier weights this is maybe half the way of olympic squat maybe more than half but still not very good. Plus monolift can help also! look at that stance very wide!

once again are there any facts beside your own belief that this is true studies some test or is this just the way you think it is.

your claiming that prymos ( sorry if i miss spelled his name no disrespect intended ) or want ever his name is squats about 180lbs less with out gear compared to a geared lifter of the same weight.

in your example you also did not use the best gear lifter in that class being used for your example.

i guess if you take the 180lbs. away their would be no difference in the 2 which would make this whole discussion pointless.

personally i don't see the point of this discussion other than you constantly trying to say that power-lifters suck and weightlifters are the best.

i really don't think this has and any insight to help me with any of my lifts or further my knowledge or understanding of the sport in anyway.

it's amazing that people cannot enjoy what they do without telling everyone else that what they do sucks.

why is it we can only feel good by putting other down so we can feel superior .

ignorance is bliss.