Dr. Squat - Dr. Fred Hatfield

dwayne grant
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kids and weight training
Tuesday, August 2, 2005 12:15 PM

At what age is it safest to start kids in weight training and how would you go about it,aside from their overall kid activities of running and jumping. I'd like to hear what Doc and RDC have to say if possible

Jeffrey Vaughn
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kids and weight training
Tuesday, August 2, 2005 4:19 PM

A child has growth platelets at the ends of their bones that remain soft during the growth phase of their life. Resistance training done prior to the hardening or maturity of these platelets has been shown to cause stunting of growth. Stunting is the premature hardening of the soft platelets on the bones. Anabolic steroids along with early weight training has been showed to have the same negative effects on the growth platelets.

Growth platelets mature and harden at different rates for different people.

I come from a family of athletes and I was not allowed to touch a weight until I was 18 years old. I happened to be six-four at the time.

Jeffrey Vaughn

http://www.geocities.com/vaughnpower/1.html

Brian Wallace
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kids and weight training
Tuesday, August 2, 2005 4:46 PM

"Resistance training done prior to the hardening or maturity of these platelets has been shown to cause stunting of growth."

What references do you have to support this?

Here are some (most peer-reviewed) ones that do not support that statement, and that show children lifting weights to be safer (when properly supervised and exercises are properly prescribed) than other sports. There are many more studies that show it to be beneficial in terms of strength and psychological improvements as well.

Micheli, L. (1988). Strength training in the young athlete. In E. Brown & C. Branta (Eds.), Competitive Sports for Children and Youth (99-105). Champaign, IL: Human Kinetics.

Faigenbaum, A., Draemer, W., Cahill, B., Chandler, J., Dziados, J., Elfrink, L., Forman, E., Gaudiose, M., Micheli, L., Nitka, M., & Roberts, S. (1996). Youth Resistance Training: Position Statement Paper and Literature Review. Strength and Conditioning, December.

Rians, C., Weltman, A., Cahill, B., Janney, C., Trppett, S., & Katch, F. (1987). Strength training for prepubescent males: Is it safe?. The American Journal of Sports Medicine, 15(5), 483-489.

Gumbs, V., Segal, D., Halligan, J., & Lower, G. (1982). Bilateral distal radius and ulnar fractures in adolescent weight lifters. The American Journal of Sports Medicine, 10(6), 375-379.

Gray, M., & Young, L. (1986). Weight training and the prepubescent athlete. The Journal of Applied Research in Coaching and Athltetics, 1(3), 201-211.

Hamill, B. (1994). Relative safety of weight lifting and weight training. Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, 8, 53-57.

It is perfectly safe, and immensely beneficial in a variety of ways, for children to lift weights if it is done appropriately according to MATURITY LEVEL (not chronological age only).

I know someone (a male) who is 5ƈ" tall who didn't touch a weight until he was in college. You are gonna be the height you are gonna be regardless of if you lift weights or not as a child, so long as you don't facture an epithelial plate (which is nearly impossible to do while lifting weights if things are done correctly, as at least two of the above references point out).

I can't stand is long-standing myths potentially limiting a child from developing habits that will benefit them physically, cognitively, and psychologically for the rest of their lives.

Todd Wilson
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kids and weight training
Tuesday, August 2, 2005 5:05 PM

They can start whenever they would like to so long as they are properly supervised. There are no negative side effects or stunting of growth. The only negative side effect could be possible injury from bad technique, but you can never grow out of that.

saad ahmed
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kids and weight training
Tuesday, August 2, 2005 5:43 PM

I started weights and boxing at age 12,i was 4/11 at that time.And now im 5/9 at age 22.My father still reminds me of me losing my height due to weight training(My dad is also 5/9).I never believed in this myth.By age 14 i was competing in the national boxing division and that was all due to weight training because weight training made me and my punches stronger.Kids can start whenever they want but under professional supervision.

Eric Stone
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kids and weight training
Tuesday, August 2, 2005 5:47 PM

Whatever age they are allowed to participate in sports they are able to participate in strength and conditioning training. Most other team sports that young children participate in are far more dangerous then weight training. Proper technique and supervision are a must of course, and basic movements should be used mostly.

ChicagoPowerlifting.com

Jim Luidl
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kids and weight training
Tuesday, August 2, 2005 7:06 PM

There is no evidence that weight training by children prior to puberty causes stunting of growth or any negative affects to joints or musculature. Studies from the late 70s and prior were shown to be flawed in their approach and have been rejected.

On the contrary, evidence in the form of bone scans shows that children who participate in resistance training generally have higher bone density than those children who do not participate in resistance training.

This does not mean that adolescent should participate in powerlifting or other heavy sports training until they have matured. In particular, there is no reason to have a child train in this manner until their endocrine system can respond. But, properly designed resistance training can produce positive benefits.

http://kidshealth.org/parent/nutrition_fit/fitness/strength_training.htm...

http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/HQ/01010.html

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drobson38.htm

http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/2003/0903/benjamin.htm

http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;107/6/1...

http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/kids/a/122099a.htm

Rickey Dale Crain once posted an excellent article on this subject that went into the methodology and detailed results. I hope he posts this again.

Jeffrey Vaughn
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kids and weight training
Tuesday, August 2, 2005 7:25 PM

I have listened to the information contrary to my post but I have not seen anyone speak intelligently about bone platelets and resistance training effects on them. This leads me to believe that the knowledge about the subject is less than sufficient. I could be wrong entirely about the subject. As with all most matters; we know what we have read.

Like I have said in the past; there are studies to prove or disprove just about everything. Including this.

Jeffrey Vaughn

http://www.geocities.com/vaughnpower/1.html

Jeffrey Vaughn
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kids and weight training
Tuesday, August 2, 2005 7:27 PM

Does the group also disagree that premature anabolic steroid use also does not stunt growth?

Jeffrey Vaughn

Eric Stone
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kids and weight training
Tuesday, August 2, 2005 7:29 PM

Plenty of studies provided on here Jeff. I have yet to see one proving that lifting stunts growth by injuring grow plates. Please provide one if you can. My guess is you can't because a valid one doesn't exist.

John Magness
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kids and weight training
Tuesday, August 2, 2005 8:00 PM

..."Resistance training done prior to the hardening or maturity of these platelets has been shown to cause stunting of growth"...

Well, my son started lifting when he was 13. He's 17 now and is 6ft6in and still growing.

I thought this line of thinking was incorrect?

Jeffrey Vaughn
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kids and weight training
Tuesday, August 2, 2005 8:14 PM

I am not saying either of us are wrong; I said before that we could find information for or against this all day long. I mean no disrespect to your opinion but here are 3 valid references supporting my statements:

http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/children.htm

"Exercise will neither stunt nor promote growth in terms of height but it does thicken the bones by increasing mineral deposits (Wilmore & Costill, 1994).

Growing bones are sensitive to stress so repetitive loading should be avoided. The epiphysial plate is susceptible to injury and therefore a fracture to the epiphysial plate prior to full growth could be a serious injury as it could disrupt bone growth."

Pam Staver, of Pam Staver Fitness Fun for Kids, is the author of the book The Magic of Motivating Kids to Move and has been featured in seven fitness videos for children, with her latest release, Serious Fun for 5-12 Year Olds. She can be reached by fax at 770 516-1625.

"Growth plate injuries have occurred in adolescents during resistance training."

Vol. 12, No. 7, pp.43-44. Copyright June 1996, Fitness Management Magazine, Los Angeles, Calif.

In this artical they mention it is rare and occurs mostly when children are not properly supervised. Most times kids are in the gym with their dads and they are lifting weights under his supervision. That is as unsupervised as it gets unless the father is you or me. Most of the time it is a desparate attempt to get a kid stronger in a short amount of time.

No Need TO "Weight": ResistanceTraining for adolescents by: Jason M. Dyer

" Because adolescents are still growing heavy lifting increases the risk of fracturing the growth plate (the end of the bone). During adolescence, the growth plates are thicker and more porous, which makes them more susceptible to injury. "

I enjoy the debate.

Jeffrey Vaughn

John Magness
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kids and weight training
Tuesday, August 2, 2005 8:32 PM

Good day Jeffrey!

These look like (the same) opinions of authors.

I didn't go through everything that Jim & Brian referenced. Having seen Jim's & Brian's posts in the past (lot's of science in the links they provide), I'd be more apt to believe their references than the opinions of a few childrens book authors.

Jeffrey Vaughn
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kids and weight training
Tuesday, August 2, 2005 8:43 PM

That's fair John... I was not trying to show overly scientific sources as much as I was proving a point that we can come up with contradictory information relating to almost anything. I do not dispute that the other sources were credible.

To this point I was only aware of information against the topic; I am now informed otherwise. My opinion is now slightly different relating to the subject. That is why I am here. To gain knowledge.

Jeffrey Vaughn

John Magness
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kids and weight training
Tuesday, August 2, 2005 8:51 PM

..."That is why I am here. To gain knowledge"... You & me both brother. Now I only wish I had a brain for knowledge.

I guess for me, contradictory info is only contradictory if it was obtained under the same "rules" as the scientific studies were

Todd Wilson
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kids and weight training
Tuesday, August 2, 2005 8:58 PM

I have listened to the information contrary to my post but I have not seen anyone speak intelligently about bone platelets and resistance training effects on them. This leads me to believe that the knowledge about the subject is less than sufficient.

### Well, there is no evidence, none, that idicates resistance training in kids (even pre-adolescent) causes any damage to growth plates. There are no reported cases of dwarfism or stunted growth attributted to resistance training. It's quite illogical. Running, jumping, falling down, swinging from monkey bars, wrestling, etc. on the play ground all invoke far more stress on bones and joints than does any form of lifting. When a child jumps off of something lands and runs away, they are absorbing over 6 times there body weight, no child will squat that. Joints are designed to move, and move objects. Objects create resistance. If moveing resistance caused the growth plates to pre-maturely harden, and therefore stunt growth, farming families of the last quarter millinieum would suffer from stunted growth. When kids grow up on a farm, they have to work from a young age. Farm work is nothing more than simple resistance training, you're just simply not in a "gym" and the resistance implements are not barbells and dumb bells.

I could be wrong entirely about the subject. As with all most matters; we know what we have read.

Like I have said in the past; there are studies to prove or disprove just about everything. Including this.

### This is a lazy way to look at literature. First, assuming this statement is correct, there is still no empirircal evidence to corroborate your assertion. Secondly, When looking at studies, you have to look at how they were conducted. Some are designed better than others. A 6 week study on college P.E. kids may find that one set is as useful, as 3 sets of 10 reps. However, in undertrained, unmotivated college P.E. students, these results are invalid, as the results will change after 12 weeks of training because the body adapts nuerally to training stimulus before adapting morphologically. One must also look at what the body of literature as a whole says. There are plenty of studies (some already given) that indicate the safety of kids lifting weights. There are none, to my knowledge, that find any incidence of consistant injury or health problem associated with proper lifting. You may find a few off hand studies that "conclude" there is no benefit, but they will not fiind health or injury issues with proper resistance training.

I am not saying either of us are wrong; I said before that we could find information for or against this all day long. I mean no disrespect to your opinion but here are 3 valid references supporting my statements:

http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/children.htm

"Exercise will neither stunt nor promote growth in terms of height but it does thicken the bones by increasing mineral deposits (Wilmore & Costill, 1994).

### This study essentially disproves you first assertion, secondly, thickening of bones can be a positive thing preventing injuries later in life, and since bones store minerals, I don't see the draw back of increased mineral stores.

Growing bones are sensitive to stress so repetitive loading should be avoided. The epiphysial plate is susceptible to injury and therefore a fracture to the epiphysial plate prior to full growth could be a serious injury as it could disrupt bone growth."

### This was the author's opinion not verified by a study.

Pam Staver, of Pam Staver Fitness Fun for Kids, is the author of the book The Magic of Motivating Kids to Move and has been featured in seven fitness videos for children, with her latest release, Serious Fun for 5-12 Year Olds. She can be reached by fax at 770 516-1625.

"Growth plate injuries have occurred in adolescents during resistance training."

Vol. 12, No. 7, pp.43-44. Copyright June 1996, Fitness Management Magazine, Los Angeles, Calif.

### Again, this is someone's assertion. Being printed doesn't make it correct. How did Ms. Staver determine these growth plates were injured? Even if it does, how is resistance training more stressful to growth plates than playing?

In this artical they mention it is rare and occurs mostly when children are not properly supervised.

### AAAAAAAHHHH!!!!!!

Most times kids are in the gym with their dads and they are lifting weights under his supervision. That is as unsupervised as it gets unless the father is you or me. Most of the time it is a desparate attempt to get a kid stronger in a short amount of time.

### Stupidity has caused more injuries and deaths than every war ever fought.

No Need TO "Weight": ResistanceTraining for adolescents by: Jason M. Dyer

" Because adolescents are still growing heavy lifting increases the risk of fracturing the growth plate (the end of the bone). During adolescence, the growth plates are thicker and more porous, which makes them more susceptible to injury. "

### Again, an unsubstantiated opinion, does he offer data to back this assertion? I prefer not to simply take a guys word for it, especially when there is considerable evidence to the contrary. Maybe these people you have referenced are right, but there opinion is no better than anyone elses without documentation, logical conclusion, or a body of evidence backing it up. I would strongly suggest you check out the book: Strength Training for Young Athletes by William J. Kraemer and Steven J. Fleck, they are the United States two most prominent strength researchers and two of the most prolific authors, both of books and contributions to the literature. There book debunks many of the myths surrounding this topic, and provides the logic and evidence as to the how and why resistance training can be beneficial to youth. Also, I believe Disa Hatfield wrote a very good article on this topic as well if I remember right, perhaps she will see this or maybe Fred or Doc can mention it to her.

Jeffrey Vaughn
Guest
kids and weight training
Tuesday, August 2, 2005 9:21 PM

Thanks for the lesson on how to analyze literature and documented studies. I am new to researching things in the exercise arena; not really.

I like the debate but the lessons are not necessary. I try not to get too personal. The information you present is good and I am better for it.

Jeffrey Vaughn

Todd Wilson
Guest
kids and weight training
Tuesday, August 2, 2005 9:24 PM

One thing I forgot to mention about the epiphysial structure in the joints in kids, is that if injured, and untreated, the injury could cause ossification of the joint. However, this type of injury is much more likely to happen falling out of a tree. However, the act of lifting weight (i.e., moving resistance) does nothing to ossificate joint structures.

Todd Wilson
Guest
kids and weight training
Tuesday, August 2, 2005 9:27 PM

I try not to get too personal.

### I apologize if I cam across as geetting personal, I never make any post personal unless I'm making fun of Kim or Smitty training in spandex. Neon.

Jim Luidl
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kids and weight training
Tuesday, August 2, 2005 9:33 PM

Normal activity of young children - jumping, running, climbing trees, rolling, wrestling and so on - impose forces upon their joints and tendons, far in excess of a controlled resistance training. So why doesn't this stunt a child's growth. The answewr is it doesn't.

The real question is does an active child need this type of training prior to their endocrine system developing, enabling them to take full advantage of weight training.

Former superheavyweight powerlifting champion Yuri Spinov addressed the subject many years ago in an article for Powerlifting USA. Spinov described the system the Soviets used to categorize potential athletes and put them on a path to an athletic career. At that time it was a regular part of the secondary school system.

Spinov pointed out that everyone was place into one or several sports sports officials believed the individual would excel at - Yuri was placed in soccer, go figure.

Even if a child was pegged as a future Olympic lifer, weight training was not really a part of their diet until they had matured into the early teen years. Spinov pointed out that this was not due to a belief that weight training would injure a child, but the realization that their were more important factors to focus on at this period in a child's life.

Flexibility and general conditioning through regular physical fitness, with an emphasis on gymnastic style activities paid more dividends in the future. These types of activities provided a better physiological and psychological response, as opposed to weight training. In essence, more bang for the buck.

A child may not have participated in weight training, but had built a base of fitness and conditioning that would serve them well on a long term basis - better nuerological response and skill adaptation (motor learning), better muscular development, better conditioning, better psychological prepartion (ability to work as a team, discipline, dealing with competitive pressure), fewer injuries, et. al.

Better results are probably produced by getting children involved in activities that promote dynamic movement and resistance using their own bodyweight. Physical strength is important, but there are other factors influencing atheltic performance, and adolescence is a time where these other factors are more important and provide a better response.

As for steroids. This is really a no brainer. There is no doubt of the negative affects of steroids, testosterone boosters and HGH when taken at any age. To use them during the developing period of a child or young adults life is like pouring gasoline on a fire.

Todd Wilson
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kids and weight training
Tuesday, August 2, 2005 9:43 PM

Better results are probably produced by getting children involved in activities that promote dynamic movement and resistance using their own bodyweight. Physical strength is important, but there are other factors influencing atheltic performance, and adolescence is a time where these other factors are more important and provide a better response.

### This is an excellent point Jim, and in addition, while I assert and maintain the safety of resistance training for kids. Very few have the maturity and discipline (self imposed or otherwise) to go into a weight room and lift in a systematic fashion. That is why for those kids gymnastics, martial arts, wrestling, and track and field, are often better alternatives to developing this base of conditioning. Virtually all Soviet athletes started out in one of those sports during the Soviet sport juggenaut during the cold war, according to Yessis.

Dr. Squat
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kids and weight training
Tuesday, August 2, 2005 10:51 PM NEW!

...here's some stuff I've been working on...

The Development Of Bones

Bones offer much more than simply the frame of the body. In addition, they also are important for protection of vital organs (such as the brain and central nervous system), storage of many nutrients (including calcium and phosphorus), allow the muscles something to pull on for movement, and they are also responsible for red blood cell development. In the human embryo, the skeleton is composed of either fibrous membranes or hyaline cartilage. The ossification process (whereby these fibrous membranes and cartilage gradually evolve into bone), actually starts as early as six weeks after conception. Two types of ossification have been identified:

• Intramembranous ossification: The simpler of the two processes, intramembranous ossification is responsible for the formation of the flat bones of the roof of the skull, the lower jawbone, and most of the collarbones. Intramembranous ossification occurs when osteoblasts (cells that are responsible for bone formation) begin to cluster in the fibrous membrane of the embryonic “skeleton”. This cluster site is called the center of ossification. The osteoblasts next secrete intercellular fibrous substances which form a matrix or framework in which calcium salts are deposited (a process known as calcification). eventually, numerous calcified cluster fuse onto the latticework of spongy bone. The spaces between the clusters (called “trabeculae”) begin to full with red marrow. Eventually, the outer layers of spongy bone will be reconstructed into compact bone. • Intracartilaginous ossification: This process is responsible for most bone growth in the body. Intracartilaginous ossification is most readily apparent in long bones, which are composed of the diaphysis, or long central shaft, and the epiphysis, or ends of the bone. Intracartilaginous ossification begins at the diaphysis, when blood vessels penetrate the perichondrium (a fibrous membrane that covers the cartilage). Upon vascularization, the perichondruim is called the periosteum, and the cartilage forming cells (called chondrocytes) become osteoblasts. The osteoblasts secrete a ring of fibrous substance around the diaphysis, which subsequently becomes bone. As ossification becomes nearly completed in the epiphysis and the diaphysis, a ring of cartilage remains between the tow structures. This ring is called the “growth plate”. This plate serves to allow the long bones to continue to lengthen as your child grows.

A complex process? Yes, it is! But there is one important part you should definitely be familiar with. The epiphyseal growth plates are fully replaced by bone between the ages of 15 and 19, although the process may continue into the mid twenties. Young athletes who engage in repetitious, high - stress activities may experience injury to these growth plates, disrupting later growth. This growth plate is much weaker than the bone which surrounds it as well as the ligaments (up to 2 to 5 times weaker than ligaments and much more so than bones). Excessive trauma in the form of running as well as skills and situations in sports such as basketball, football and baseball involves potential damage to these growth plates. The key to preventing such damage is through proper conditioning. The inclusion of a supplemental resistance program assists in strengthening those joints that will be subject to trauma. the specific “loading” of the stress through resistance training also helps stimulate normal growth and development of the underlying bones. There is evidence that prolonged trauma to the joint may result in injury to the growth plates as well. Long distance runners and little league pitchers are particularly at risk due to repeated trauma to their growth plates. The key is variation and alliterating your child’s activities, which will change the load and stress on their skeletal system.

The Growth And Development Of Muscle Mass

At birth, your child’s muscle mass will make up approximately 25% of their weight. This percentage will nearly double by the time they reach their adult years. Due to increased testosterone production during puberty, boys experience a greater increase of muscle mass during this time as compared to girls. However, muscle mass in girls during and before puberty is still present. The increase in muscle mass appears to be a result of each individual muscle fiber becoming larger rather than an increase in the number of muscle fibers. As bones grow longer, the length of each muscle fiber also increases. Peak muscle mass is seen around the age of 18 to 25 in males and 16 to 20 in females. Continued muscle growth, of course is possible with the aid of resistance exercise and careful dietary practices which are designed to promote muscle growth. Now comes a topic of great debate among exercise scientists, as well as those who practice exercise science without the needed information to do so: “Is strength - training safe and effective for children?” This is a topic in which exercise scientists frequently disagree. Let’s look at the pro and con opinions of some noted exercise scientists (as well as our rebuttal):

Dr. Ken Cooper:

“I don’t recommend the use of weights or other apparatus by a child until at least age 10, and in most cases after age 12.”

Dr. Cooper is known as “The aerobic guru” and his advise is well sought - after. Apparently Dr. Cooper feels that weight - resistance exercise is potentially damaging to the growth plates found in the bones of kids. While this is true, this danger is also present when kids engage in long distance running. As we stated earlier, the key is variation of exercises, as well as proper supervision.

Thomas Kurz, M.Sc. (quoting a study by Sulmitsev, in which arch height was measured during lifts) :

“11 and 12 year olds can safely lift 30% of body weight; 13 and 14 year olds can use up to 50%; and 15 and 16 year olds can use up to 100%. Kurz says that the growth processes of the long bones is complete at age 17.”

Two thoughts on this quote. First, what kinds of lifts? For example, very few if any people can safely perform a biceps curl with 100% of their body weight, while at any age squatting 30, 50 or 100% of their weight is not dangerous. Second, “the growth processes of the long bones is complete at age 17” is a general statement. Bone growth can continue into the child’s twenties.

Charlie Francis (Olympic track and field coach):

“Another myth that comes to mind is that power - related work can not and should not be performed by children and pre - adolescents. The fact is that kids routinely do more power - related work such as throwing stones, climbing ropes and trees, jumping, and so forth. They do so safely. The key is that the child himself determines how much of this activity is safe, not a coach or parent.”

Here is a keen observation by perhaps one of the greatest coaches of all time! We would like to add that weight - resistance training be supervised by a certified fitness trainer or strength coach for any age group, is it is potentially dangerous for adults as well.

Jack Wilmore and David Costill:

“Generally, the youngster will adapt well to the same type of training routine used by the mature athlete. But training programs for children and adolescents should be designed specifically for each age group, keeping in mind the developmental factors associated with that age.”

Amen! But keep in mind that chronological age is not the only determinate of maturity. Furthermore, we would like to extend this advise to adults as well. Your program and that of your child should be specifically designed for the user.

Dr. Paul Ward (From The Encyclopedia of Weight Training):

“The results of the small amount of research that has been completed regarding the utilization of weight training in prepubescent and pubescent children have produced evidence that weight training for these ages is strongly indicated. This research evidence combined with empirical evidence plus the findings in a number of national physical fitness surveys that demonstrate the strong need for strength development in our your boys and girls, is compelling confirmation that weight training programs are not only safe and effective for prepubescent and pubescent children but must be vigorously pursued...”

Again, proper supervision and program design is the key.

Here is our stand on resistance - training for kids: When weight training programs are properly conceived, organized, and implemented and the proper equipment is available there is no reason to believe that injuries will occur or that the child will not benefit. The existing research evidence and empirical observations have shown that weight training is safe and effective at any age. The key to success of any resistance - training activity is the construction of a scientific program along with adequate supervision. With the proper equipment (meaning it is adaptable to their physical dimensions) and supervision, your child can begin to use reasonable resistance work at any age.

(Insert guidelines here...)