Home › Forums › Main › Training Logs

ABC training modified

Fri, 01/30/2009 - 4:01pm — nottoofaded

I have for a time been following the ABC bodybuilding program for 2 1/2 years, and I started weighing 173 lbs, and now weigh 200 lbs, with a significantly lower bodyfat %. I had been training before that for about 2 1/2 years, and am soon turning 21.
My greatest influeneces that affected my version of the ABC Program outside of Dr Squats book, are Arnold's encycliopedia, and Ellingtion Darden's new hit program, also mostly I resent having to put the last distinction in, and you will see that it did not impact it that much.

Originally, I followed the ABC program as best as I could (I was unable to reduce my negatives on A workouts).
Various changes happened along the way, and I will point out why I felt it was important, and what influenced it.

For the past 6 months my program has been relatively stable and relatively little has changed because of the foundation that I adopted in these times, if you consider doc's training complicated, this doesnt make it easy.

It should be noted that until I started dieting the past month for the competition in may I paid little atention to the diet, assuming that I ate 6x a day, and that the difficulty of my workouts, since they varied as A is easier than the other 2, I didnt feel I needed to adjust my calorie intake strictly.

my workouts follow the scheme provided like 10x10 for A workouts for Chest, I prefer machine or cables for A workouts, when possible to remove the negative resistance a bit. 12x8 for back, and 8x5 for triceps, and I do go to failure at the end of every set that requires it (final A set, every B set, except 40's and every C set. Although I do not train forearms, and Abs and calves are completeel divergent from the book.

I follow a modified rest schedule, Chest and Back are the same as in the book, and I train them together for the benefit of synergistic contractions, but mostly because they recover at the same rate. Shoulders and arms are trained on the same day for the same reasons, however since I do not count 1/2 days my B workouts will often err on the side of rest for 3 days, unless this causes me to have a triple training day with all the muscles of the body being trained at once, although this still occasionally happens. I trained lower back with legs, calves and abs. The workout days follows the patterns of the lower back rest periods.

Since the system get complicated from there, I will begin by exaplaining it with Chest, then move on to the other parts.

A cycle works like the typical ABCB that is prescribed in the book.
So the A workout would be bench Press on some kind of machine, sometimes a smith machine. The B workout would be done on a Bench for 5x5, incline DB bench for 12 reps (although this will soon be switched for flyes, as my strength increases, since the dbs here only go up to 125's. and some kind of machine for 40 reps. The C workout is a typical C workout, there was a time when I did 2 C sets, but upon reading the HIT book I gave that up as too much.
then the next B workout follows the same scheme as the first. All of the workouts are under an hour.

This is where I have begun to complicate it.

Borrowing from Arnold the idea that the different exercises affect how the muscles develop, and considering the different insertion points for the pecs I belief that angle does affect the development of the muscle, at least a little bit. And teaming together the idea from HIT that intensity is what matters, I belief that by rotating these exercises I can cause I to get more rest, in that rep range, and added growth in the other areas. I do not accept that you can shape individual muscles, but that you can encourage muscle groups to favour some muscles in those groups than others. I feel I have learned this mostly based on my own experimentation to prove it to me.

premise 1: origins and insertion affect the effects of the exercise
premise 2: different exercises are more compatible with the different origins than others are
premise 3: If the difference is small, the affect that intensity can have as a stimulus for growth, the intensity level place in the area will provide a moderately significant difference between them.
Conclusion: based on the muscles origin and placemnt, you can affect the growth of them.

So in this ABCB cycle the A workout is done on an incline, the B workout in incline bench first, the db bench press is second, and the C workout is the same type as before.

I feel that this system allows me to restrain from boredom, track my gains rather easily, allows for a balanced development of muscle throughout the whole, and allows for parts of the muscle to get the rest that they require, while not neglected training them, and getting the gh response.

For back the program is modified in thatI belief there are 3 parts of it that need to be stimulated, the upper back the with of it and the thickness near the center, lower back is trained with legs.
So my 3 main exercises are bent-over underhand rows, underhand chins (for width) and overhand chins (for upper back) all grips are about shoulder width. I used to do overhand rows, but recently have found them insignificant.

In this program Rows are always evident, the reason for this being that I feel that chins are very similiar, and I feel that under that system that the chest was used I would be training the thickness half as much as the exercises that developed the width.

The way that this is implemented is that I put rows at 5 reps when they are the group being stressed the most and at 12 while the other groups are being targeted. the new group being targeted is brought in first as 12's then moves on to 5's. to explain this:

BR= bent rows
UC= underhand chins
OC= Overhand chins

after the rotation of ABC, B workout
5 reps- OC
12 reps- BR

next A workout is BR
next B workout is 5 reps- BR 12, reps UC

and the rotation continues

it sould be noted that I do one set of pullovers on B chest and back days.

the rotation within shoulders hasnt been devleoped yet, but I will develop it once I get my lateral delts to catch up with the front delts again, rear delts I only ever train with 12 reps, and I do not train traps. the system will probably be based on a similiar cycle as the othersalthough it must be different since I do not do 5 reps rear delt exercises.

‹ bboymimi's training log Martial Arts ›
Sat, 01/31/2009 - 1:21am — nottoofaded

theres more, ill get to it

theres more, ill get to it son
God is willing to work with you, but not for you

Sat, 01/31/2009 - 3:43pm — Technolifter

Welcome!

Welcome to the training log section! I read through your post and thought you had the fundamentals down pretty well, but I would caution you against one thing: HIT is WAY off the mark. While it WILL undoubtedly work for a while for almost anyone, you will stagnate if you stick with just 1 set to all out failure all of the time. It doesn't sound like you are one of those crazy HIT Jedi's that adheres strictly to that belief like some weird new age religion, but I just wanted to help steer you away from the possibility of getting mired in bad training science. If HIT were the end all be all of training, there is no WAY Andy Bolton would have been the first to deadlift over 1000 lbs, because he used a 10x5 template.

I will tell you about an article I read a long, long time ago (can't remember the name of it now) but the basic premise was this: a fellow bodybuilder was watching Mike Mentzer train and noticed he was doing several sets of each exercise. The bodybuilder then approached Mentzer and said, "Hey, how come you were doing so many sets per exercise? Did you finally give up on HIT?"

Mentzer replied, "No-- those were warmup sets." But he did enough "warmup sets" that he was doing about 4-5 sets per exercise anyhow, so his training wasn't so radically different than anybody elses. Half the reason he achieved what he did was the volume of training he got from his "warmups." I think the same could probably be said of Dorian Yates, but one would also note that when a reasonable level of strength is attained, as it was with Dorian, training to all out failure can also increase the likelihood of injuries.

I look forward to your posts and seeing your training methods!

Sat, 01/31/2009 - 6:26pm — nottoofaded

Where Hit comes in I guess I

Where Hit comes in I guess I should have been more specific, I do the 3 sets to failure that Dr Squat recommends, HIT comes in where I specifically pointed it out. And that doesnt count my warmup sets either.
Anything in the program that I have that is different from the book I'll try to keep pointing it out specifically.

My exercises for delts are cable laterals for A workouts. exercises for B workouts are Hammer Presses, Regular shoulder presses, side laterals, and bentover laterals. Once I get the side balanced again with the front delts, I will probably have a program with 2 cycles like I mentioned earlier with rear delts at 12 reps, and the 5's alternating between the 2 presses, then having side presses and regular presses alternating on the 12 reps every 3 cycles.

A note about these rotations, I use them mostly to maintain proportionality in the muscles, someone else might need a different setup for their program.

As I may have mentioned earlier I train arms with shoulders since they recover at the same rate. For Tri's and Bi's the rotation is the same since I belief that there are 3 parts to each of those muscle groups, and although I dont belief you can isolate one group from another, I feel that I can stress one area slightly more than another, in doing this I feel I have been able to emphasize the medial head of the triceps more with underhand pressdowns, and for the Bi's I feel I can stress the brachalis and the longer outer bicep, one with hammer curls, the other with incline presses.

Triceps has overhead extensions, kickbacks and underhand pressdowns, the rotation is a straight one. the exercise that begins at 12 in a cycle will be a 5 rep one the next time around, and the one after that will recieve time off. The same cycle works with Bi's the three exercises are hammer curls, incline curls and preacher curls, although I occasionally alternate the last exercise with alternating curls when the bench is full. Triceps C workouts with kickbacks are usually one armed, since the weight is too distracting to hold back statically for the shoulders. And I occasionally do the preacher curls one arm at a time, because I am trying to become more symmetrical.
I realize that the Brachalis is not best stimulated by hammer curls, but as they are a relatively small muscle, I feel that using them stimulates them without neglecting the rest of the biceps.

As I mentioned earlier I train lower back with legs, calves, and abs. And the rest periods follow those prescribed in the book for lower back. There is an influence here from HIT, T-nation and on here. I knew that in some way I was overtraining, and by conducting my research I learned that the overtraining was related to the CNS. In these workouts I would do deadlifts and squats in the same workout, and in a C workout that can drain the CNS quite effectively.
The article here and on T-Nation recommended not going to failure on most sets, Christian Thibideau recently had an article that changed this stance, so I still go to failure on every set. I discussed my concerns with someone with a degree in this area, and he suggested that I should ingest fish oils, and increase my vitamin and mineral supplementation. So on occasion I take omega-3 and 6 supplements, and a vitamin and mineral supplement. My diet includes fish every day, usually in the form of tuna but occasionally salmon.
The other adaptation came in terms of training, I no longer train with Squats and Deadlifts in the same workout. They rotate at the 5 rep range, while the 12 rep range will have the opposing muscle stressed than what was stressed in the 5 rep range, so 1 leg extensions with deadlifts. With Squats I either do leg curls or front squats, but the latter is rare.
On the C workouts with deadlifts I have to use hack squats on the 12 rep range, because there isnt enough weight on the leg extension machine.
I am looking for an exercise to add to target the sartorius, and am accepting recommendations.
Since I dont agree with training calves or abs everyday, or every other day, so I decide to train them hard every time that I train them. I do one legged calf raises, since it was no longer practical to do 2 legged calf raises with the machine. I start at my highest weight for 1 or 2 reps, and go to failure, then I drop down by about 30 lbs consistently until I am using the lowest weight on the stack to failure. Rarely I use seated calf raises... maybe 3 or 4 times in a year.
Abs is done in a similar way to the C workouts. I start with the exercise seen in Rockey 4 with a flat bench, and lifting the entire body onto the upper back, I can do as many as 10 of these then I run to hanging leg raises (lifting with the pelvis of course) and running between them until I cant do any reps on the first exercise. Then I do one more set of the leg raises, and then doing a set on each side for the intercostals with one arm cable crunches.

It can be argued that there is not any use of periodization here, but I feel that the stress on the abs that is generated by deadlifts and Squats earlier in the workout may affect them differently.
The A workouts preceeding the Squat cycle is the one with squats in the book, or leg extensions and curls. before deadlifts, it is leg extensions and deadlifts.

Some quick indicators about how this has helped me. in every exercise my strength has almost doubled in the past 2 1/2 years.
My best levels for each muscle groups are as follows:
Bench 330 1 rep, sometimes I am self indulgent
Chins +115, underhand rows 345
Deadlifts 525
Squats 430
hammer curls 75's
kickbacks 65's
Shoulder press 100's, hammer press 90's, that is why I am trying to match them.

I am 20 and weigh 200 lbs, my competition is may 2nd and I may post the pics from it on this site.
I am doing pushups to help with the serratus, but I dont think it the best that I can do, if there are any suggestions I'd appreciate them.
Some things that should be noted are that I do have rather good genertic potential, my vastus medialus takes up about 5/8's the length of my though, the only genetic weakness that I have is slightly short clavicle length.

If I left anything out let me know.

God is willing to work with you, but not for you

Sun, 07/19/2009 - 11:49pm — nottoofaded

So I recently got finished

So I recently got finished competeing, once in May, and once in July. For both shows my bf was too high, the first show I was 186, and finished 4th in my weight category, second time I lost some muscle, some of it in my lateral delts, but alot in my lat width, and during that time I had weight get added to my calves. I competed about 4lbs from where I should have, at about 174-176. In that competition I placed 3rd.
Im posting this on here as much for others as a reminder for myself. This coming year I intend to track my progress with the weights and the exact reps I do, and have a much cleaner diet, with a greater emphasis on vegetables.
Ive dropped the bench press from my regimenand have added decline presses and dips, depending upon the rep range. It has become apparent that bench pressing was an ego exercise, and one where I mainly used the other muscles involved. Also I'm dropping overhand chins altogether.
The contest taught me to more effectively rotate my exercises, so as not to lose muscle in important places like I did this time. Also that I need to learn more about posing in order to show my physique to its best.
As I mentioned earlier I followed the ABCBA program in the book. Now I regonize that my chest is my weakest bodypart, so for chest and back, the routine will be abcbcba, at least for the next 6 weeks to see how my progress is affected in those areas and with the other changes I've developed.
If it works, Ill take a 6 week break from it, and use it to focus on my quads. Although my legs usually are the best out of the athletes I compete against, and I have no problem making grow, I feel this is actually a good way of focusing on a strong point until everything is larger, and most lower body exercises tend to make the whole body grow.
With calf training, I'm only going to do my old workout for C workouts. they tended to grow often exclusively to the expense of every other bodypart. As an example, theyve grown two inches in only about 16 months of training them.
My arms measured at 16 and 3/4 inches, forearms at 13 1/2, calves at 16 inches, and quads at 23 1/2, which might be a bad measurement, but it was leg extended not curled up, and I think they wouldve been better that way because my hams arent bad. These measurements were taken 3 days after the last competition, so my waist was about 29 1/2 inches, and a pretty low bodyfat, and these are cold measurements. I didnt do the chest measurement, but it would not have been bad.
So in putting down the measurements here I hope to put myself to some accountability so that by christmas when I start dieting again, my bf% is not much higher, and my arms measure 17.5 inches, calves at 17, legs at 26, with an overall proportionate increase in size. I think this requires approximately a 20 lbs increase in muscle size and I believe that to be something within the bounds of this program.

God is willing to work with you, but not for you

Mon, 07/27/2009 - 9:52am — nottoofaded

Looks like the decline bench

Looks like the decline bench wasexactly what I needed, my front delts wereway overtrained, and now I've made the move to lower all woorkloadsin every workout, cutting A workouts in half, B down to 2 sets per rep range, and C workout by 1, 40 rep set 1, 12 and 2 5 rep sets.
God is willing to work with you, but not for you

Mon, 08/10/2009 - 9:57pm — nottoofaded

So I weighed mysel about 10

So I weighed mysel about 10 days ago and weighed 196, which is a gain of 10 lbs, and I'm leaner than my contest bf levels. I recently decided to cut my arms and shoulders workout to 1 set to failure on each rep range, with about 1/4 of the volume in the A workout, and 5 sets in the C workout, 3 of the at 5 rep range.
I now do lat shrugs, and may keep them permanently in place of chins.
God is willing to work with you, but not for you

Tue, 12/01/2009 - 11:49pm — nottoofaded

okay, I'm not sure anyone

okay, I'm not sure anyone reads this but I've got some updates.
The other day I weighed myself, 212 at roughly the same bf% i've had all along.
I'm back to 2 sets with arms and shoulders.
for three weeks in october i couldnt train at all, eleven muscle groups were injured. I got inflamed for instance, by holding my phone to my ear! since then I've been getting ART and things have continued to progress.
legs has a recovery rate of 4,5,6 corresponding to ABC, although I'm experimenting with 4,5,7 right now.
Squat 435 for 5
Deadlift 455 for 4
Hack Squat 4 plates plus 20 each side for 12
seated calf raises 305 for 6, (none of that half rep crap either)
standing calf raise on smith machine, 6 plates a side 16 reps
I no longer train abs at all, the are very good.
Chest and Back recovery rate is 3,4,5
I use the decline at 30 degrees, 350 for 4
Incline flyes 105 for 10
Decline flyes 95 for 12
Bent over rows underhand 340 for 5
" " " overhand 315 for 8
that lat shrugdown is difficult to tell, i can do 8 reps with 4 and 6 plates, my forearms appear to be fast-twitch
Shoulders and arms are 3,4,4 but i never work out that way because I always give them a days rest on each side of a chest n back workout- with tremendous results.
standing shoulder dumbbell press 105' for 4
side Laterals 60's for 10
bent delt work (not a lateral cause i dont keep my arms straight) 85's for 12
Incline curls 65's for 6
Barbell curl 125 for 12
my dumbbell kickbacks inclive alot of chesting to use as an explosive exercise... so i wont post their numbers here... too much inflation
overhead one arm dumbbell extension- 75's for 8

God is willing to work with you, but not for you

Mon, 02/22/2010 - 7:53am — markandspike
markandspike's picture

wow

Wow you are making very good progress. Do you think you were over training following the book version of the ABC program. And are more in-line with fred's son's program that is on this web site.

mark