The Russians

DrSquat's picture

Remember when no one could beat the Americans in powerlifting? Now, our team is the doormat of the world, and the Russians have assumed the throne. Any of you care to give me a short list of the reasons? I have an interview coming up in a couple of days, and would like to be able to share insights beyond my own (often myopic) viewpoint.

They stick to one subject

I've been wondering this subject since childhood. After studying them with various books and personal contacts I know they stick to one subject they are tested to be good at with physical and mental aptitude tests at an early age. They do not overtrain, they do not overwork. They stick to a subject they are good at and are not distracted by a society of distractions. They do not have chemical preservative laced denatured foods and are given what they need. They rely on herbal remedies for strength and endurance. None of them need part time jobs to pay rent, and do not go to college or worry about grades for the time after the prime sports of their lives is gone.

Possible DNA Manipulation

This may sound bizzare but the old cathedral with the twists on the dome in Moscow that was or is the Kremlin represented the dna double helix befire the Revolution in 1918. The orthodox church in Russia supposedly could manipulate DNA (true or not I do not know). Periodization I learned from my private library and this site seems to be a main reason too.

I think of Rocky IV (laugh) but seriously, to beat them play their training game. They are beatable! I'm no expert but with my 2 cents I would say Periodize, eat right and supplement right, and live the training life style and game with no distractions, and know if you have the genetics to be the best.

One of our local boxers from my high school Emily kleinmeyer or Kleinfelter beat there woman boxer and saw they still train in camps much like the Soviet training camps. If we could identify at a young age our possible strength sports athletes in our High school with coaches and guidance counselors we could use our best genetically gifted athletes and win. It's been a huge complaint of many people our olympic athletes don't get govt. support for training. Many private donations (I think of Dupont and his wrestling camp idea years ago) help but in American society many athletes do not get enough support. I was reading there is pro Stalinism happening now and perhaps they have the drive to prove to the world their old system works better for the people. Our drive should be "We are free, We have rights, and we will prove we can win in a fair competition" as a possible answer to the revert to old Stalinism ideas if that is the drive reoccuring in parts of Russia. Olympics represent two opposite ideologies in a grandeouse sense of competitive sports.

One thing I have noticed with Scandanavian WSM winners and Polish in the past decaded is that come from a society with more of a balance between the extreme capitalism of the USA and the extreme previous or possibly present socialism ways of the ex USSR or current Russia. Being an extremely red blooded American too proud for food stamps and rental assistance (years ago) I had 90 hour week job burnout it was hard to accept maybe they have a better way. Perhaps they do. Those countries do not have a lop sides bi-polar economy as the USA does, also.

How many people rode the glory and hype of other inspirations instead of developing once's own personality of doing what it takes to win.
Forget the hype of glory of winning untill one wins, I think of EInstein wearing the same clothes everyday to not distract thought from his drive to do what he does best... dedicate everything within reason to doing what is needed to WIN! .

Russian Orthodox manipulation of DNA

"This may sound bizzare but the old cathedral with the twists on the dome in Moscow that was or is the Kremlin represented the dna double helix befire the Revolution in 1918. The orthodox church in Russia supposedly could manipulate DNA (true or not I do not know)."

That certainly is bizarre. The double-helical nature of DNA was not determined until Watson and Crick did it in 1953, and DNA wasn't even demonstrated to be the carrier of genetic material until by Avery, MacLeod, and McCarty in 1944.

Double Helix

Of course, the geometric structure "double helix" has been known for a long time. Here's a staircase in the Novgorod Kremlin: http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewgould/3644533740/
A model of DNA, IMO one of the most beautiful sights in all of science: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DNA_orbit_animated.gif

Since the civilization of

Since the civilization of the Middle East 5000 or so years ago natural systems of the natural ways of the planet have been kept secret to people that did not use gods. Seperation of atheism and religion has stopped shared information of the wonders of biology. Catholic priests and religious people (such as Russian religion too) have known about dna for centuries if not more. Starting with the roman empire and Christians thousnads of years ago going into Celtic white skinned blue eyed areas to civilize sharing the wonders of religious healing.

Greek related science figured it out half a century ago but the sepearation stopped cooperation. I tried joining a christian scientist church to incorporate spiritual healing, dna manipulation into a level of American school taught education I could understand, but the balance didn't work.

I have had numerous health problems from not eating correclty and skin cancer so I tried believeing it was true Luterans with Catholic guidance could correct point mutation os dna and through spiritual healing but the cancer still grows. Cut and slice time folks. HAHA I will heal, I will win but unfortunately religious healing hasn't been proven to me but perhaps it works for others.

From UK

Big, strong and physically gifted... the potential powerlifters ... play American football?????

Which would give: more fame, more money ... and (importantly) the chance to lift weights and be strong anyway.

I don't know about the states, but no-one here knows what a powerlifter does. If people ask, I normally say 'I lift a bit'; if they press on, I will admit to 'I do some powerlifting' ... and still people will think it's bodybuilding. Occasionally I will get a 'Is that lifting overhead, like in the Olympics?'.

In the UK, it's off the radar for almost everyone (including in the gyms!). Same over the pond?

My 0.02

Nick

Todd Wilson's picture

One argument that comes up

One argument that comes up regularly on this topic is that the American talent pool is absorbed by other sports, I.e., football, baseball, etc. That BS! In the sport of weightlifting Bulgaria competed on the the international level and at times defeated their Russian counterparts. The comparative population difference between Russia and Bigaria was about 120 million people. Bulgaria at the time had aout 8 million people... Let us liberally give them 1 million good, male athletes, that were of proper age and health to compete in weightlifting. You're telling me with all the gym goers, bodybuilders, ex high school and college football players America can't scrape up a mere million potential athletes and develop a half a dozen champions every 4 years or so in an iron sport??? Please!

Then you have the ever present 'the Soviets are on drugs, or better drugs, etc.' argument. BS again, the Soviets would invade Poland to have access to all the Mexican vitamins Americans take. Furthermore, ask people who have traveled to Russia and they virtually all tell the same story.... They're using old crappy equipment in old crappy gyms. Some are on some sort of anabolic help, some aren't just like here in America.

America has no excuse to not compete on the international level any better than it does in Powerlifting or Weightlifting. The bottom line is Americans are using inferior methods which is further compounded by the political BS surrounding federations, organizations, etc.

Now, there are a litany of other issues that have significant affect, but those two excuses are the biggest reasons.

If you take the athletic pool that is wasting it's time with cross fit nonsense and kettle bell karaoke, allow them to train intelligently and hard for 6-8 years, you have a talent pool America could compete internationally with!

I remember the Bulgarians in

I remember the Bulgarians in the 70's winning strength events. I remember tribbulus and moomiyo being marketed as their secret here in america. Possibly they pooled more training and effort then the Soviets or possibly when the communists took control in the 50's they realised Bulgarians had great strength genetics. I always wondered about that but American's have the most complex, hard working societies in the world (maybe Japan and S. Korea as an exception) and I think we are overworked then overtrainined (due to overwork).

I know from my personal expwerience I experience more gains on this temporarey disability I have I do not work full time and I eat, sleep, read, and train bodybuilding. In 6 months of periodization I made it to the 300# bench for 3 reps not working hard labor jobs or 40 hour weeks. At age 40 I gain more new strength and size then I did when I worked a 40 hour week (sometimes 90) when I was in my ealry 30(s). Of course, I take supplements now and eat better as a result of more maturity and knowledge about calorie/protein intake. I don't think new machines make much more difference and the vitamins don't if they eat raw organic foods in Russia from what you have said and what I have heard. I know kettlebells are a new fad, but having a lower center of gravity I still haven't been convinced they are a benefit but have heard the handle sometimes is a benefit for some people.

We will be on top again and win, I still think there should be an adaption process for our athletes to have more time to train properly and REST. Better foods, healthier enviroments, and supplementation. Devotion is the key and I know plenty devote as much as they can but as I said earlier, college, school, jobs, etc take a toll compared to Ex Soviet bloc countries and modern day Russia.

Hand in hand with Todd's

Hand in hand with Todd's argument of top athletes choosing other sports (i.e. American football), international competition is sanctioned by the IPF which draws from the USAPL in the USA. Many American powerlifters choose not to compete in the USAPL because they disagree with testing/gear restrictions/judging, lack of music,or simply due to a much wider selection of federations...Many top lifters do not lift USAPL, and do not therefore qualify for IPF competition.

Stan Efferding, Brian Carrols, Al Caslow, Sam Byrd,(just to name a few off the top of my head) the list is endless, but MANY if not most of the top US lifters simply do not care to compete in USAPL/IPF competition.

?

Quote:

"One argument that comes up regularly on this topic is that the American talent pool is absorbed by other sports, I.e., football, baseball, etc. That BS! In the sport of weightlifting Bulgaria competed on the the international level and at times defeated their Russian counterparts. The comparative population difference between Russia and Bigaria was about 120 million people. Bulgaria at the time had aout 8 million people... Let us liberally give them 1 million good, male athletes, that were of proper age and health to compete in weightlifting. You're telling me with all the gym goers, bodybuilders, ex high school and college football players America can't scrape up a mere million potential athletes and develop a half a dozen champions every 4 years or so in an iron sport??? Please!"

Todd.
The question was powerlifting, not weightlifting, although most of the arguments will apply for either.
I'll just go for the UK, but both are minority sports ... powerlifting is, however, FAR more of a minority sport. No TV coverage, no coverage in any other media. No one here has heard of Fred Hatfield (sorry, Doc.).

To extrapolate a population of 8million to a million potential lifters is laughable, frankly, even using simple population statistics. I appreciate, however, that that wasn't your main point. I think the argument stands - the talent pool goes to other areas. You've got a relatively small talent pool for ELITE sports anyway. An exceptional athlete might run the hundred in 10.3 - means nothing these days does it? - but how many are genetically capable of it? VERY few.

Lots of 'quick' kids dream of winning the 100m at the Olympics. Find me someone who dreams of making a 1000lb squat? It's not happening.

Comparing population sizes is a specious argument. Population of New Zealand? Record in Rugby? Iceland - strongman? It's more to do with where the talent is inspired, encouraged and rewarded to go. Kids have role models and dreams. Clearly, in the US, the dreams are not geared towards powerlifting at the moment.

Regards,

Nick

Todd Wilson's picture

Todd.  The question was

Todd. 
The question was powerlifting, not weightlifting, although most of the arguments will apply for either.

### I'm aware, but Americans essentially suck at both on the international stage, and the excuses used by weightlifters have been adopted by powerlifters.... I.e., the metaphysical superiority of the Russians. Their problems and excuses for those problems on the international scene are essentially the same.

I'll just go for the UK, but both are minority sports ... powerlifting is, however, FAR more of a minority sport. No TV coverage, no coverage in any other media. No one here has heard of Fred Hatfield (sorry, Doc.).

### Ditto here, furthermore college strength coaches can't teach a power clean and don't even use the power snatch. If they could teach those lifts, perhaps more football players would gravitate towards weightlifting when their football career is done. As they teach weight room technique now, many have bad backs and are not interested in squatting or dead offing when their football career is over.

To extrapolate a population of 8million to a million potential lifters is laughable, 

### That was exactly my point, the U.S. Could though, yet the Bulgarians, and arguably the Russians, do more with less. Weightlifting in Bulgaria or Russia is't the equivalent of the NFL or NBA in the U.S. Far far from it. Bulgaria's weightlifting talent pool is very likely only  few thousand athletes and I'm being generous with that figure. Yet they find a way to succeed.

frankly, even using simple population statistics. I appreciate, however, that that wasn't your main point. I think the argument stands - the talent pool goes to other areas. 

### The American talent pool of athletes does not go to other sports, the talent pool of athletes is enormous! The utilization of those athletes is poor. Yeah, powerlifting would be better if you forced every college football player to switch, but that's ludicrous. With the talent the U.S. Has left, we are at the least, the genetic equivalent and possibly have a larger pool still than a country like Bulgaria. This not to even mention the international success of countries like Cuba, Iran, etc.

You've got a relatively small talent pool for ELITE sports anyway. An exceptional athlete might run the hundred in 10.3 - means nothing these days does it? - but how many are genetically capable of it? VERY few.

### Without better training methods, we don't know that.

Lots of 'quick' kids dream of winning the 100m at the Olympics. Find me someone who dreams of making a 1000lb squat? It's not happening.

### Ever been to a PL meet???

Comparing population sizes is a specious argument. Population of New Zealand? Record in Rugby? Iceland - strongman? It's more to do with where the talent is inspired, encouraged and rewarded to go. 

### I'm not arguing that, that's true, but we are a comparatively wealthy country of over 300,000,000!!!!! What about the strong kid in Bulgaria that can't leave his elderly parent's farm??? Or gets stuck in a comfy job in their military??? What about the brutality of the Bulgarian method, how many begin to be weightlifters and can't handle the volume and intensity and end up washing out? The talent pool going to other sports in the U.S. is an irrational excuse! At the very least every blue moon we would have a legit contender statistically. We do in all the other Olympic sports no one watches or sees or hears of but once every 4 years. Why not weightlifting? Why not the PL world championships?

Kids have role models and dreams. Clearly, in the US, the dreams are not geared towards powerlifting at the moment.

### Not as many as want to be quarterbacks for the Giants, but there's enough to be competitive if better training methods were used. The Russians don't test kids at the age of three and start training them then as is largely believed. In more dominate countries, especially Russia, weightlifters and powerlifters are often athletes who wash out of other sports, MORE POPULAR SPORTS. Such as Hockey, soccer, basketball, gymnastics, etc. 

### As I've said, the U.S. has no reason to not be more competitive internationally. "Every loser has an excuse." - Dick Devenzio

Todd

Todd.
The question was powerlifting, not weightlifting, although most of the arguments will apply for either.

### I'm aware, but Americans essentially suck at both on the international stage, and the excuses used by weightlifters have been adopted by powerlifters.... I.e., the metaphysical superiority of the Russians. Their problems and excuses for those problems on the international scene are essentially the same.
*** Agree. Just making a note.

I'll just go for the UK, but both are minority sports ... powerlifting is, however, FAR more of a minority sport. No TV coverage, no coverage in any other media. No one here has heard of Fred Hatfield (sorry, Doc.).

### Ditto here, furthermore college strength coaches can't teach a power clean and don't even use the power snatch. If they could teach those lifts, perhaps more football players would gravitate towards weightlifting when their football career is done. As they teach weight room technique now, many have bad backs and are not interested in squatting or dead offing when their football career is over.

*** Yup.

To extrapolate a population of 8million to a million potential lifters is laughable,

### That was exactly my point, the U.S. Could though, yet the Bulgarians, and arguably the Russians, do more with less. Weightlifting in Bulgaria or Russia is't the equivalent of the NFL or NBA in the U.S. Far far from it. Bulgaria's weightlifting talent pool is very likely only few thousand athletes and I'm being generous with that figure. Yet they find a way to succeed.

*** Sorry, I think I missed your point.

frankly, even using simple population statistics. I appreciate, however, that that wasn't your main point. I think the argument stands - the talent pool goes to other areas.

### The American talent pool of athletes does not go to other sports, the talent pool of athletes is enormous! The utilization of those athletes is poor. Yeah, powerlifting would be better if you forced every college football player to switch, but that's ludicrous. With the talent the U.S. Has left, we are at the least, the genetic equivalent and possibly have a larger pool still than a country like Bulgaria. This not to even mention the international success of countries like Cuba, Iran, etc.

You've got a relatively small talent pool for ELITE sports anyway. An exceptional athlete might run the hundred in 10.3 - means nothing these days does it? - but how many are genetically capable of it? VERY few.

### Without better training methods, we don't know that.

*** We don't have a 'number' or a percentage, but VERY FEW is, I think, fair. I teach kids, I've had one international athlete from primary school whom I took to the athletics club where I coached when he was eight. He stuck out like a sore thumb. Haven't seen anyone else with anything APPROACHING that sort of talent.

Lots of 'quick' kids dream of winning the 100m at the Olympics. Find me someone who dreams of making a 1000lb squat? It's not happening.

### Ever been to a PL meet???

*** Yes, and I think it backs up my point. THere are little local pockets of lifters. For example, there is a serious powerlifting gym in Southampton who provide almost a quarter of the competitors at the British Championships - and the majority of the junior competitors MOST of whom have BOTH parents lifting.
There is an interesting book by Matthew Syed called 'Bounce' (I don't agree with all his arguments, but there are some good points raised) - about how most of the UK table tennis team over a period in the 80s came from a single street.

Comparing population sizes is a specious argument. Population of New Zealand? Record in Rugby? Iceland - strongman? It's more to do with where the talent is inspired, encouraged and rewarded to go.

### I'm not arguing that, that's true, but we are a comparatively wealthy country of over 300,000,000!!!!! What about the strong kid in Bulgaria that can't leave his elderly parent's farm??? Or gets stuck in a comfy job in their military??? What about the brutality of the Bulgarian method, how many begin to be weightlifters and can't handle the volume and intensity and end up washing out? The talent pool going to other sports in the U.S. is an irrational excuse! At the very least every blue moon we would have a legit contender statistically. We do in all the other Olympic sports no one watches or sees or hears of but once every 4 years. Why not weightlifting? Why not the PL world championships?

*** It DOES go to other sports. Where's your fooball (soccer) team? Your rugby team? Over here, we don't have many basketball players or American football players either. Baseball? Not in the UK. I agree with you that it's NOT an excuse, but it's the circumstances that are around.
If the US put the resources into rugby that they do into American football, they might be the best in the world. You need almost exactly the same physical attributes and skills to succeed in either. But they're minnows in the rugby world. Lack of coverage, support, coaching and local role models - your talent goes to other sports.

Kids have role models and dreams. Clearly, in the US, the dreams are not geared towards powerlifting at the moment.

### Not as many as want to be quarterbacks for the Giants, but there's enough to be competitive if better training methods were used. The Russians don't test kids at the age of three and start training them then as is largely believed. In more dominate countries, especially Russia, weightlifters and powerlifters are often athletes who wash out of other sports, MORE POPULAR SPORTS. Such as Hockey, soccer, basketball, gymnastics, etc.

*** That is an interesting point. I am aware that the 'Communist Factories' are not operational, butI am interested in the point of whether the Iron athletes are coming from other sports in Russia and elsewhere? I would have thought not, so thank you for mentioning that.

### As I've said, the U.S. has no reason to not be more competitive internationally. "Every loser has an excuse." - Dick Devenzio
*** I agree. No excuse. But it still doesn't happen. We need to get the 18-19m shot putters (might have junior representative honours, but can't make the final step to the top) and convince them that being world champion in PL might be good.

I think we agree on many points, but we may have to agree to disagree on the main one.

Regards,

Nick

Todd Wilson's picture

*** We don't have a 'number'

*** We don't have a 'number' or a percentage, but VERY FEW is, I think, fair. I teach kids, I've had one international athlete from primary school whom I took to the athletics club where I coached when he was eight. He stuck out like a sore thumb. Haven't seen anyone else with anything APPROACHING that sort of talent.

*** Very Few have the talent to make it to the Olympics in badminton or ping pong. Moot point.

Lots of 'quick' kids dream of winning the 100m at the Olympics. Find me someone who dreams of making a 1000lb squat? It's not happening.

### Ever been to a PL meet???

*** Yes, and I think it backs up my point. THere are little local pockets of lifters. For example, there is a serious powerlifting gym in Southampton who provide almost a quarter of the competitors at the British Championships - and the majority of the junior competitors MOST of whom have BOTH parents lifting.
There is an interesting book by Matthew Syed called 'Bounce' (I don't agree with all his arguments, but there are some good points raised) - about how most of the UK table tennis team over a period in the 80s came from a single street.

### PL meets here in the U.S? There's kids everywhere. So, while maybe or maybe not choosing it, they are exposed. Perhaps not as much to weightlifting, but definitely PL. But regardless, active participants in the talent pool still number enough to be competitive internationally. And that is the best way to increase exposed! Success begets success.

Comparing population sizes is a specious argument. Population of New Zealand? Record in Rugby? Iceland - strongman? It's more to do with where the talent is inspired, encouraged and rewarded to go.

### I'm not arguing that, that's true, but we are a comparatively wealthy country of over 300,000,000!!!!! What about the strong kid in Bulgaria that can't leave his elderly parent's farm??? Or gets stuck in a comfy job in their military??? What about the brutality of the Bulgarian method, how many begin to be weightlifters and can't handle the volume and intensity and end up washing out? The talent pool going to other sports in the U.S. is an irrational excuse! At the very least every blue moon we would have a legit contender statistically. We do in all the other Olympic sports no one watches or sees or hears of but once every 4 years. Why not weightlifting? Why not the PL world championships?

*** It DOES go to other sports. Where's your fooball (soccer) team? Your rugby team? Over here, we don't have many basketball players or American football players either. Baseball? Not in the UK. I agree with you that it's NOT an excuse, but it's the circumstances that are around.
If the US put the resources into rugby that they do into American football, they might be the best in the world. You need almost exactly the same physical attributes and skills to succeed in either. But they're minnows in the rugby world. Lack of coverage, support, coaching and local role models - your talent goes to other sports.

### Coaching matters??? Yeah! That's my point! As for baseball in the U.K. And Rugby in the U.S. That argument has nothing to do with U.S. pL and weightlifting! Despite the individuality and team sport differences... You're mistaking total talent from the available talent pool... Big difference! As I mentioned... Yeah, it would be different if American football didn't exist, but it doesn't matter! With the available talent pool, there is enough talent to be competitive at the national level! Talent pool is an illogical argument used by coaching failures! Yeah, if I have Michael Jordan and Scotty Pippen, or Shaq and Kobe on my team it makes winning easier, but good coaches win regardless of talent! Jerry Sloan, former coach of the Utah Jazz averaged 50 wins a year with and without Stockton and Malone! Pete Carrill formerly of Princeton struck fear in the hearts of more talented basketball teams in the NCAA. Why? Coaching! Doc competed against guys that were equally as genetically gifted than he was. More so perhaps in some cases. But his methods were still so much more advanced! Hence, he squatted 1,000 before anyone else. In sprinting, do you seriously think that out of the billions of people that have lived and died in the past 100 years that Usain Bolt has been the only one capable of running his speed??? I don't think he has the benefit of 100 years of knowledge on running 100 meters! Recovery methods, diet and training protocols, even drug protocols, though I'm not accusing him, just speaking generally with athletes.

Kids have role models and dreams. Clearly, in the US, the dreams are not geared towards powerlifting at the moment.

### Not as many as want to be quarterbacks for the Giants, but there's enough to be competitive if better training methods were used. The Russians don't test kids at the age of three and start training them then as is largely believed. In more dominate countries, especially Russia, weightlifters and powerlifters are often athletes who wash out of other sports, MORE POPULAR SPORTS. Such as Hockey, soccer, basketball, gymnastics, etc.

*** That is an interesting point. I am aware that the 'Communist Factories' are not operational, butI am interested in the point of whether the Iron athletes are coming from other sports in Russia and elsewhere? I would have thought not, so thank you for mentioning that.

.???  There's some that do grow up in weightlifting or now even in PL in the Soviet Union, but, it's not like some people suggest. Michael Yessis explains a lot about the Soviet Sport system in his book, but myths persist.

### As I've said, the U.S. has no reason to not be more competitive internationally. "Every loser has an excuse." - Dick Devenzio
*** I agree. No excuse. But it still doesn't happen. We need to get the 18-19m shot putters (might have junior representative honours, but can't make the final step to the top) and convince them that being world champion in PL might be good.

### They're there! We need better coaching!!! Our power lifters and weightlifters that are competing are not genetically inferior to those from other countries competing. Therefore, what is the other variable??? Preparation! That's the coach's responsibility!

Hey Todd

Thanks for responding each time.

I'm not sure if we're arguing around the same point.

I still think that the 'iron sports' athletes are going (mostly) to other sports. However, I'm using that as a description of the situation, rather than an 'excuse'.

I think that other sports are offering THE PERCEPTION of greater possibilities of rewards. I'll have to go for the UK here, but an average professional rugby player will be able to make a living at his sport (even in the lower divisions) and will have a certain level of exposure in the media. There will also be the enjoyment of the social side of the sport - training together, the club, socials etc. There will be a pretty good coaching structure in place. However, the same individual would have the potential to be an international powerlifter/strongman competitor??? Maybe be world champion in an individual sport?

Anyone wanting to play rugby (and it's a relatively minor sport compared with football) will have any number of clubs within easy local access. They will have professional coaching available. Powerlifting gyms? There might be a local gym with some powerlifters present ... but more than likely NOT, unless you live in a city. Coaching? Unlikely to be available.

All the sports I've taken seriously I've been taken along to a club by a friend. All of those clubs had coaches.

Do you have lifting coaches in the States??? Our lifting coaches are working with the athletes - shot putters, javelin throwers, sprinters, jumpers, cyclists. I've seen some damn good Olympic lifting when I used to work up in Loughborough - but nearly all of it was from the national athletics squad.

(Incidentally - most impressive thing I've ever seen - Jonathan Edwards, triple jumper, cleans 150k at a weight of 68-69k. Beats quite a few of our international hammer throwers.)

Regards,

Nick

DOC

Have you anything to say on this? Have you done your interview?

Be interested in your views.

Nick

DrSquat's picture

Yes, I did the interview,

Yes, I did the interview, but wasn't happy with the overall quality. Doing it again this coming week. Here are some of the notes I went in with...

EXCUSES, EXCUSES…

DNA manipulation in Russia
No chemical preservatives in Russian food
Russian society free of Western distractions
The Russians don’t have to worry about money –they have Govt support
Russians don’t have the big money sports draining their talent pool
Russians have a love of strength beyond that found in the USA
PL is at best a backwater sport in the USA…no one knows about it
Russians have access to better drugs than USA athletes
Larger talent pool in Russia
Superior coaching in Russia
PL is fragmented into many organizations in the USA, and the best lifters choose not to compete
in the USAPL or IPF
USA lifters believe that they are smart enough to devise their own training program…they are
NOT
USA gyms frown upon lifting heavy weights and stress silly balancing balls and kettle bells
USA lifters have to pay their own way to competitions…even the worlds…many can’t afford it
USA lifters have their careers or jobs to contend with, which pulls them away from total
dedication to lifting

MY TAKE…

The “priesthood” mentality doesn’t exist in the USA
Poor attitude among USA lifters…lack passion
U.S. lifters have no reasons not to be more competitive internationally. "Every loser has an excuse

I can only speak from my

I can only speak from my experience but when I was super hard working (installed grave stones and chopped/sold firewood) and energetic and believed anything was possible I got put on medications by a bunch of non-active dominating doctors. I am 6'4 and 286# with a booming voice and a fast pace but even with a gentlemans politeness it disturbs pale skinned aristicrats stuck in offices all day to deal with a hard working healthy person. Passion is not tolerated in my town because it is considered a mania. I wonder about the laziness happening in my town and possibly other parts of american making people sick and non motivated where healthy sprit and action is considered a disturbance compared to the peacefull bliss of inactivity and no motivation. Ignorance is bliss and some doctors sure prove this to me every 3 months. Activity, tolerance, I good belief system, and positive attitude is needed but sick inactive people cannot tolerate the energy and get upset.
Dr Squat, years ago being strong and hard working was part of being a man. I remmeber my grandfater's transmission freezing up going up a hill and he lifted amd swiviled it to go backwards up the hill in reverse (model T or a). Strength was always needed before modern times. Even the Y chromosone of males is degrading every thousand years slowly.

Plus how many broken familes mom raised boys are more attached to their mothers sensitivity. Demasculization in American 80's in some parts of the Liberal areas. I remember the term a swift kick in the ass was used to motivate (of course it was not meant to be offensive but motivating) but now it's verbal assault even though there is no physical punishment associated with the word. I think your "Man up" writing makes sense. Non of these are excuses but problems to solve for some people. "A great problem solved is a great acomplishemnt that leads to more and better acomplishments"

jwbruce's picture

very interesting discussion.

very interesting discussion. i wonder how much poor nutrition factors into the equation? when i see so many top level lifters putting up huge huge numbers yet still are very overweight i cant help but wonder what they are doing with their nutrition and supplementation. obviously a powerlifter doesnt need to be 4% bodyfat to compete, but if you are an elite lifter training your butt off week in week out but still very overweight / obsese you cant help but conclude that there isnt enough attention being paid to nutrition.

also as Yukon mentioned, the various federations factor into it i think. personally i have competed three times in local meets here in japan (nothing special im not strong by a long shot), and wore knee wraps in training, but the differences in gear / rules, etc between all the different federations is quite a mystery to me.

Todd Wilson's picture

You're correct in why

You're correct in why powerlifting and weightlifting are not as popular, but, popularity or lack thereof isn't why the U.S. Generally sucks internationally in both.

Do you have lifting coaches in the States???

Yeah, the USAW actually does a decent job of certifying coaches, but, few strength coaches or persona
Trainers are certified via US Weightlifting.

Todd Wilson's picture

Jamie makes good points.

Jamie makes good points. Poor nutritional status and excess body fat hamper recovery, training, and are typically indicative of undesirable hormonal profiles.

Holly Mangold

American lifters seem to want to constantly reinvent the wheel. I watched a documentary on Holly Mangold. She's trying to qualify as a superheavy on the women's team. She was shown lifting and then she went for a long, slow jog afterward. She also mentioned something about crossfit. This was before she was invited to the Olympic training facility in Colorado, and my guess would be that she wouldn't be jogging after a workout there, but ANY olympic lifting coach should know better. How could a 300 pound lifter, or any lifter, possibly benefit from a slow jog?!!

Thank you

Thanks Doc and Todd.

I've enjoyed this thread.
I can find about 15 'powerlifting' gyms in the whole of the British Isles. Not a lot. I'm hoping to go back to SE Asia again soon, so that'll leave me completely on my own - the only person in Cambodia who squats.

Doc, is your interview available on-line?

Nick

DrSquat's picture

No...not yet...

No...not yet...

"very interesting

"very interesting discussion. i wonder how much poor nutrition factors into the equation? "

I agree with nutrition, in America I hear about little things such as the cheap chromium picolinate most all nutrition companies give in their formulas and vitamins rather then the expensive chromium nicitonate. People that take BCAA(s) and do not get enough chromium waste the full effect bcaa for that day. I think Russia has mostly first generation natural foods and eat less processed and mostly organic foods. Poloquin was writing once about some extreme gains him or one of his trainees made going organic. Nature makes no mistakes and even the farmer feared black night shade has some medicinal value in small amounts (intestinal worms). Training, focus, nutrition/diet, and rest and the proper drive/attitude and one can be unstoppable.