Dr. Squat - Dr. Fred Hatfield

Additional muscular stress or micro-trauma does not necessarily require greater calorie intake.

Repairing muscle tissue and therefore increasing fiber size is more of a function of protein synthesis. Protein synthesis is affected by the amount and types of amino acids the body has available as a result of the protein you eat.

Now, that's not to say that training doesn't cause an increase for caloric needs, but eating more calories per se doesn't ensure "optimal" mass gains.

I.e., after the same workout, all things being equal, if person A consumes 15% more calories than person B and let's say person B was getting a minimum of 2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight. And Person A's extra 15 percent of calories were good carbs and protein. Person A wouldn't gain mass faster than person B. When everything is optimal, 2 lbs. a week is about as fast as humans can add muscle. YES THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS, but un less a person was malnourished and it's corrected, is taking anabolics, or has gone a period without putting on any substantial muscle mass, 2 lbs. a week is the upper limit, eating more isn't going to speed that up, but it can aid in gaining fat and becoming insulin resistant.

Therefore, my advice is on diet as I've stated many times is to merely eat correctly. If you're trying to gain muscle and aren't, eat more (correctly). If you are trying to lose fat and aren't, eat less (though honestly if you eat correctly, you can't help but be lean).

Hey Brian,

I use to be in the same camp, "You need a post workout carbohydrate/protein beverage". I was a huge fan of Dr John Ivy's Nutrient Timing (book/research)

However, I now question that.

For the last 9 months, I haven't ingesting any carbohydrates before or after my workouts. I ingest some caffeine and whey protein and do just fine.

I did so after reading Dr Maurio DiPasquale's "Post Exercise Carbohydrates May Be Counter-Productive".

"Recent studies have shown that not only is the use of post exercise carbohydrates non contributory to the increase in protein synthesis brought about by protein intake after exercise, it can actually be counter productive."
http://metabolicdiet.com/pdfs/articles/Post_Exercise_Carbohydrates.p

Another DiPasquale point, is that in a 48 hour rest period between workout days, muscle glycogen will be fully replenished with out post workout carbs.

So, my philosophy now is that there is no need for post workout carbohydrates providing enough time is given between workout for same muscle groups groups trained.

Thus, if you train legs on Monday, full glycogen in the legs will have been completed by Wednesday...48 hour later.

I believe there are a multitude of advantages to avoiding a post workout carbohydrate beverage.

It took me awhile to decide to try this. So, I have some understanding of any dissenting views on this.

It didn't make sense to me, initially. Nor did sex when I found out as a child...I knew my mother would NEVER do anything like that.

With that in mind, I believe that if one is involved in a competition or training session that involves the same muscle groups on the same day, ingesting a post workout high glycemic index carbohydrate/protein is necessary.

That because you need to restore muscle glycogen as quickly as possible to insure your performance. Which a high glycemic index carbohydrate/whey protein will do.

Another piece of empirical information that I've found is that is "Carb Loading" works for strength events, like powerlifting.

There appears to be a be a "see saw" effect with hydration and peformance.

Dehydration is the down part of the "see saw" ride. Your performance will drop...you going down.

Superhydration is the up part of the "see saw" ride. Your strength performance is going up.

From what I have seen (my hypothesis), "Carb Loading" supherhydrates muscle cells allowing for a stonger contraction.

That appears to be one of the reasons that creatine works so well, "Cell Volumination".

"Cell Voluminization" also one of the components that occur with anabolics like Dianabol and Anadrol. You soak up water like a sponge.

Thus, the upside from superhydration is a dramatic increase in strength. However, there is a down size.

Superhydration make you feel a bit lethargic and bloated. Backing out of the squat racks feel like you just ran a marathon.

Kenny Croxdale

I guarantee it will never work if you never try it.

***Brian,

"The CHO/PRO combination is necessary if you are, say, track athelte doing multiple events. Or doing a weight workout in the morning then practice a few hours later for your sport."

***I agree with you on that. I touched on it in my post.

"You link didn't work. I'd like to see those studies that say CHO/PRO isn't as good as just PRO for protein synthesis."

***I will try to email it to you later today. Any question on it need to be addressed to DiPasquale. It's beyond me.

"Every other study I've seen (maybe 6-7 of them) says otherwise. Actually they say just PRO is the worst vs. the combination of just CHO."

***I understand. I was in that camp at one time, as well. However as I stated, I haven't seen any negative effects from a carb/protein beverage vs a protein only beverage.

Evidenly, DiPasquale hasn't seen any negatives from it, either.

"Muscle takes up to four weeks to be totally recovered from necrosis (this is one of the theories behind supercompensation). So from a muscle recovery standpoint, not talking about energy production/utilization, the difference in timing wouldn't make much of a difference. But, if adding CHO helps protein synthesis, why not use it to get a jump start?"

***This leads to a couple question of questions,

***1) If it does "jump start" the process, how much does it "jump start" it by. A day, an hour, a week?

***2) If CHO/PRO beverage does "jump start" your recovery, does it enhance recovery beyond a NON-CHO/PRO beverage in a 48 hour period? If so, how much?

***I haven't seen any recovery probelms from not ingesting a carbohydrage loaded beverage prior or after a weight training workout.

"Not sure what to think about the cell volumization thing. A contraction is all or none, and is "electrical". As long as there is both adequate water for transmission along the nodes of ranvier and along the t-tubules, you're good. Maybe more cell volume pumps up the cytolpasm, and helps calcium more effectively get from the rough SR to troponin C? Again, donno if that would matter as long as the cell is at least euhydrated. Maybe..."

***Ok, some of that was beyond me. However, I believe a stronger contraction is possible when superhydration takes place.

***Cell Voluminizing definitely is a factor with creatine.

***Same with Dianabol and Anadrol.

***I found (by accident)that carb loading gave me a creatine type of cell voluminizing effect, allowing more weight to be pushed/pulled.

Kenny Croxdale

I guarantee it will never work if you never try it.

Ok Brian...Mr Know-It-All,

I knew you were going to rain on my parade. You pencil neck little geek. Do you walk around with a slide rule hanging off your pants?

As I previously stated, over all I have had good results with the program. I don't seen any difference in my recover with a non-post workout carb beverage vs a carb one.

I do value your input. I'd be interesting in your thoughs on the reference you referred to.

Kenny Croxdale

I guarantee it will never work if you never try it.

Just for the record, I've been supplementing sans carbs for the last 9 months with outstanding results. Staying lean has been easier, I have not found any difficulty in adding muscle when I want to. Also, having worked with several individuals during the spring and summer, I assert that going sans carbs PWO is superior for fat loss when that is the primary goal of training. I have seen a 1:1 ratio in females in fat loss to muscle loss using just whey post workout.

Whether or not it is optimal for an advanced, hard training athlete, that's debatable certainly, but I will say that I would not include PWO carbs unless the athlete was at a bodyfat level that was desirable AND had no indication of insulin resistance.

The only instance in which I still argue for PWO carbs is for a lean person who needs to add a lot of mass, I.e., skinny teens, tall basketball players, etc.

I believe some of the PWO data is skewed towards carb usage because for years exercise scientists have had a blind pre-ocupation with energy production and glycogen replenishment based on the needs of aerobic athletes. A weight trainer will replace muscle glycogen by the next workout on a strict no carb Atkins diet. Certainly, not all the data is skewed that way, but a significant body of it is. ALso, I think there is a significant lack of data on (and this is a theory of my own invention admittedly) an optimal insulin response PWO. Based on the macronutrients ingested is there an optimal insulin response for maximal nutrient uptake at the cellular level? There may not be, but I'm willing to argue that too big an insulin response is bad ALMOST always. But, I'm not sure about how to go about quantifying that, and it's not going to be researched significantly for several years anyway...

But, again, I've been seeing greater than normal results by stripping carbs postworkout.

Todd:

Doesn't Poliquin still recommend a serious amount of carbs PWO? Seems like I remember reading he take grape juice and quadicarb with some veggie powder.

Grape juice? Talk about an insulin release. But of course, he also stays single digit body fat, right?

Todd,

Like you, I've eliminated carbodhydrates from my postworkout beverage 9 months ago. I never noted any difference in my recovery.

Great point, "I believe some of the PWO data is skewed towards carb usage because for years exercise scientists have had a blind pre-ocupation with energy production and glycogen replenishment based on the needs of aerobic athletes."

The majority of research on post workout carbohydrates coming from research "based on the needs of aerobic athletes".

I don't see the expenditure of muscle glycogen from strength athletes the same as aerobic athletes.

I don't believe the same application of carbohydrage post workout beverages beverages for aerobic athletes applies to strength athletes.

1) How much muscle glycogen is depleted with in a strength training progrram (85% plus loads/1-5 repetitions)that last a hour with three minute rest intervals?

I doubt that much. Certainly a lot less than for an a demanding aerobic protram. (My opinion).

2) How much muscle glycogen is depleted from a bodybuilding training session program (70% plus loads/8-12 repetitions) that last a hour with two minute intervals.

More muscle glycogen than a strength training session but not that much more. And definitely less than an aerobic program. (My opinion).

That is one of the reasons, "A weight trainer will replace muscle glycogen by the next workout on a strict no carb Atkins diet." The amount of muscle glycogen depleted from resistance training sessions like this are minimimal compared to an intense aerobic training session.

Plus, a resistance trained athlete has more than enough time to replete muscle glycogen, 48 hour or more.

I suspect many aerobic athletes train on a daily basis. Their recovery time being about 24 hours.

With a shorter recovery period the larger amount of glycogen depleted, a post workout carbohydrate beverage for aerobic athletes would make sense. (My opinion).

I just don't see the need for post workout carbohydrates with strength athletes.

Kenny Croxdale

I guarantee it will never work if you never try it.