Dr. Squat - Dr. Fred Hatfield

Pulldowns will have some benefit, but clearly less than pull-ups.
As your question shows you're fully aware of this, why are you changing?

Nick

I guess i'm getting lazy...I just want to sit down and pull the weight...LOL. I'm around 240lbs now. When I was 200lbs, I was able to do a one arm chin up and do a weighted chin-up with 200lbs around the waist. Right now, I can do a one hand pulldown with 200lbs. I think if I increase my one hand pulldown to 250lbs and trim down to 220lbs, I can get the one arm chin again.

Well, I got good at weighted chins by doing a pretty simple workout that looked liked this:

Started
B/W X 15-20
25lbs X 10-15
50lbs X 6-10
75lbs X 3-5
100lbsX 1-3

Finished
50lbs X 15-20
75lbs X 10-15
100lbs X 6-10
125lbs X 3-5
150lbs X 1-3

Maxed out
Chin-ups
150lbs X 5
200lbs X 1

Maxed out
Pull-ups

125lbs X 5
175lbs X 1

It was 3 days a week. One day I would do chin-ups, another pull-ups and the third would be doing pull-ups between 2 parallel chin-up bars so I could use the side grip. The rep ranges were the same though. I started doing my B/W the first set for 15 reps, then a 25lbs around the waist the second for 10, 50lbs the third for 6 and 75lbs the fourth set for 3. I stuck with b/w until I got 20 reps. Then 25lbs around the waist became my first set until I got 20 with that. At the same time I would add more reps to the heavier weight or add a fourth heavier set with 25lbs more weight. So instead of 75lbs being the fourth set, it would be a 100lbs. 75lbs would take over as the third set. Eventually, I was doing chin-ups with 50lbs for 20 reps around the waist on the first set. Sometimes I would test myself without the high reps sets. I got 5 reps with 150lbs around the waist and 200lbs for 1. This pyrimid scheme worked the best. The weighted high reps followed by the heavier low rep sets seemed to help each other. Much better than just doing low reps.

The one arm chin-up did'nt come untill later on. I was'nt doing any chins at all. Instead, I was going crazy with curls and straight arm barbell pullovers. Both with my bodyweight. One afternoon I was in Manhattan with some friends. I saw a scaffolding and said I was going to do a one arm chin-up. I grabbed the scaffolding and pulled myself all the way up from a dead hang. My friends were amazed and so was I.

Alright, I'll get back to you guys in a few weeks. I won't know for sure until I try it myself.

Another problem with pulldowns is 99% of people in the gym do pulldowns leaning way back as if doing some kind of rowing motion. I always keep mine vertical. Even with heavy weight.

-spam delete-

I have'nt done any one arm stuff for a while. I should start again. I'm doing reps on the lat pulldown with 345lbs. I add a 45lb plate to the 300lb stack. I might buy a pulldown machine that uses plates instead of a stack. I saw one with a 500lb capacity. I tried some weighted pullups. I'm pretty heavy right now so I only got a few reps with a 100lbs. I think the weighted pullups work more grip/forearm and that area around the rear delts(tendons?). The pulldowns do a good job on the lats though.

It depends. If you can do double your bodyweight on the pulldown for reps or your bodyweight for reps with one arm, there should be some kind of carryover to the bar.

In other words, what's the difference between pulling the bar down and pulling yourself up to the bar? Aren't exactly the same muscles involved?

### If this is the case go weigh yourself, perform as many pull ups as you can. Rest 6 minutes. Now go perform pull downs with the same weight. You'll do more reps.

### Assuming your aren't doing the decidedly goofy pull down lean back... In the pull down, you move the bar around your body. In the pull up, you've moving your body around the bar. as a rule of thumb... generally, closed chain movements are the most effective. But there are exceptions.

"Some of my books say that chinups/pullups are better than pulldowns"

Well, it does'nt seem like many people are doing weighted pull-ups. Most of the top bodybuilders do pulldowns instead of weighted pull-ups. Powerlifters do pulldowns as an assistance exercise. The absence of the weighted pull-up does'nt effect their lifts.

I think the problem with the pulldown is too many people use bad form and use it as a "pumping" exercise.

Sorry Pete,

Didn't notice the typo. That's 10 with 200 pounds. I think I may have done 5-6 reps with 250. I do recall doing pull-ups with 75 pounds (325 total) hanging around my waist for 3 reps. I know I can't do that with pull-downs.

Willis Lewis, Jr.
"The man that dreams success is already successful"

Lewis:

Are you sure machine "200" is accurate in pounds?

The machine at my gym says 200 but it lifts me off the seat after a set (I'm 225-230).
So the 200 is not lbs in my case.

M

My .02:

Numbers on machines are just that: numbers.
I've got access to four pulldown machines, and they're all different.

Pulldowns are easier than pullups or chinups. I assume it's just because of the extra effort needed to control the body when hanging from a bar.

A big mistake that people make with pullups/chins is not adding weight to make progress. In my gym, I'm pretty well the only person who does chins/pullups/dips with added weight, but plenty of others could.

Nick

I just thought that it was interesting. Personally, I could care less about the pull down as I only use it when I am doing GBC and want to increase time of the set. I think I will test it out during my next back workout to see how many I can do.

Willis Lewis, Jr.
"The man that dreams success is already successful"

Obviously on pulldowns you are braced against something (your thighs against pad) and can pull against that. Pull ups / Chin ups way different exercise.

Both effective in their own way. I use both.

Historical Performances
in
Chin-ups, Pull-ups, Levers,
and Crosses

http://www128.pair.com/r3d4k7/Chinups.html

Yuri Vlasov - 1 OAC at 280lbs

1. when doing chin ups, is it better to pull the head to the front of the bar?

### Yes. Pulling the bar behind your neck decreases motor unit recruitment and can cause impingement of the shoulder joint.

2. which grip is better- wide,narrow, or shoulder length?

### None are better, all are useful. Change grip every 3-6 workouts.

3. is pulling the whole body to left and right sides good?

### Yes! Commonly known as rock climber pull ups. Excellent variation. There are around 70 versions of different types of chin-up/pull-up variations that all offer excellent benefits.

In addition to the impingement, pulling the bar to the back tend to result in trips to the ER. Of course this is anecdotal but years ago my co-worker was doing that and the cable snapped and the bar came crashing down on the back of his head then spine. As soon as he got to the ER the doctor jokingly said, "let me guess, you were doing pull-downs to the back". The doctor had seen several of those injuries. That's all I think of whenever I see someone doing that. More so when I notice that the machines are neglected and/or old.

Willis Lewis, Jr.
"The man that dreams success is already successful"

My pulldowns and weighted pull-ups are pretty close. I think I can pulldown a little more right now but thats because I took a break from weighted pull-ups. I'm going to do both for now on.