Hi, do you think its possible to try too hard?
I seem to make great gains for 3 weeks then hit such a wall a cannot lift the warm-up sets.I ache all over, have trouble sleeping and cant keep my eyes open during day.
This cycle has been repeated for 2 years now so I have given it a go on rep ranges, rest periods but always pushing for more.
If an EASY gainer trys to follow a Hard gainers program surely they will not recover?
I have not seen mention of the Paradox of an EASY gainer not progressing bacause they need to do less.
When I am progressing I feel great and cannot wait to train again but is it possible that pushing too near to your Max too quickly can have such a draining effect?
I plan to just relax, enjoy the lower intensity and see if I get anywhere past four weeks.
I do notice when I enter the details into the 16 week generator the early workouts are easy.
Docs 80% of max puts me as an easy gainer so I shall now try the longest rest periods and not push the intensity as I give up hearing I am not trying hard enough.
Yes.
The answer to your question is Yes.
Never mind about others saying 'You're not trying hard enough.'
Depending upon what you are training for, let the mirror, scale or your workout log be your guide and do what works.
Good Lifting!
Vaughn
----------------------------------------------------
This isn't happening, it only thinks it's happening.
Hi Spagehopkins
Most people go to the gym too often.
A lot of people try to lift too heavy too quickly (ego).
Do either of those apply to you? They are both issues of how patient you can be in your training.
I've been coming back from a long-term injury, and spent a couple of months lifting just the 20kg bar. Then I spent a couple of months not going above one plate on anything. I've been using the 10lb dumbells for rehab exercises. It's not been much fun, and I didn't look cool (or strong), but the payoff's coming now as I'm 20-30kg up on my squat from before I was injured.
If you post some of your workout log and your goals, you will get some good advice on this forum.
Good luck,
Nick
This is not a bad place to start:
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Bill_Starr_5x5
You can never "try" too
You can never "try" too hard. Never. If you ask me, there is a big difference between trying too hard and overtraining. If you try hard and do your reps and sets correctly and get it right the first time, you won't have to try again. As an example, when I was training with Bill Crawford and Sebastian Burns, Bill used to make me try the same weight over and over again until I got it. If I didn't get it in one workout I would know for sure that I was going to get it the next workout. It was motivation. Because if I didn't get it, my punishment would be to try it again and again. What is better? Trying hard and getting it right the first time? Or missing it and having to repeat several sets only to fail? I never saw Sebastian mess up like I did because he had the experience. He would do each set and do it right.
I do however think there can be a point to which that won't work anymore. But it depends on diet and everything else. When I was 220 Bill wanted me to eat more to get up to 240. Its an easy way to make gains and it can't fail. But I didn't listen; I wanted to be 198 because I feel better at that weight. So when I started dropping weight on my way back to 200, trying harder just wasn't working anymore. I still kept a good amount of strength though. I guess my main point of all this is that when you are under pressure you can do better, but your diet better be good as well, otherwise it won't work.
But certainly I do believe you can overtrain. I think the slow gainer to easy gainer scale can be simplified and it depends on how you train. Stronger folks who especially engage in heavy lifting such as powerlifting, especially with gear, you just can't recover from it as fast. Because the weight is heavy! I've always done hard workouts and they always work for me. But you have to be smart about it. If you make each workout count you really only need 2 workouts per week. Even Charles Bailey told me that he and his partner were only doing 6 workouts per month. Because they would do 2 workouts per week and a forced week off once per month. You can't argue with a guy who got a record total drug free. Clearly it works. Additionally you don't and can't do a lot of volume all the time. You might have workouts where you do a lot of volume, but it can and will lead to overtraining if you try to do it too much. So you have to know when to back off. Sometimes I would do up to 20 sets on a singular lift including raw and gear. Other times I would do several sets working up to a max single and get the heck out of the gym. Just to make things clear though, when I say 2 workouts per week I mean 2 workouts per week only. If you are training for a bench only meet you can train the bench press twice per week and drop squats and deadlifts completely. If you are training for a full meet you can have one day for squats and/or deadlifts and then another day for the bench press.
Training close to or at your max definitely has a draining effect. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. As long as it is working and you are giving yourself enough time to rest and recover then you are all good. Yeah, it is taxing and that sucks, but thats the sport for you. Its hard and if it were easy everyone would do it.
I am however a big believer in progression over doing hard work for no reason. But it depends on what lift we are talking about. If it is a lift that you are already good at such as the raw bench press, I would go with simple progression. For example, lets say you got 300 last week but aren't sure if you can do 315 yet or not. You would be much better off trying 305 and getting it then trying 315 and missing it. Its a waisted rep. But with the shirted bench press it is different because if you aren't good at it yet then you don't know what you can get. For that reason with the shirted bench, it is often better to make bigger and almost what seems to be impossible jumps in weight such as 20 or 50 lbs. To keep a long explanation short, it does work and this is how you make big progress with your shirted bench. It is really hard and it never gets easier.
And just to comment on peaking, you will peak on a program no matter which one you do. Wether its Metal Militia style, linear periodization, or conjugate periodization, you will peak. And it will always be easier to progress in the beginning and harder at the end. Because even with such styles as conjugate periodization you still need a break once in a while. Every time you take a good break you will initially lose some strength. But you will much more easily gain it back and more. Don't let anyone fool you. Everyone takes a break from time to time, even if they say they don't.
Overtraining again
Thanks for taking the time for the replies
lots to think about and you have given me hope that I am right to back off to the percentages given in Docs schedule and stay with it.
I am doing ABC for movements with a push/pull and lower split. Where I keep going wrong(I think) is when I feel I have more in me than scheduled I push for more reps or sets.
Interesting that the raw bench example is just about where I am at and when I base % 1RM the bench at 80% feels easy,
Good points have been made,
Good points have been made, but look at your workout log. If you don't have one that's part of your problem.
How often do you change your routine, exercises etc. Are you working out for 2-3 hours at a time? Any good workout after your workout takes less than an hour.... hour and 15 minutes max on a serious leg day!
To push or not to push.
The short answer is yes. Planning out a periodized cycle is bread and butter for all sports endeavors. But what's written on the page isn't a suicide pact. Your body's energy levels and recovery can change due to a variety of circumstances.
You have to use a bit of common sense and know when to back off on a particular day or even a week if you just aren't feeling capable of lifting the specified weights in your plan. Remember, your max will change throughout a cycle, and not always up, sometimes it goes down and you are actually lifting a percentage that is far higher than you have on paper. As Pavel Tsatsouline pointed out in Beyond Bodybuilding, better to perform a 70%-80% single in good form than a shaky max that can get you hurt.
Bulgarian lifters, who squat 5 times a week are constantly adjusting loads according to their feel of the weight. Your warmups are a good indication of what you should do during a workout. The Russians don't call them warmups, but "feeling weights", and for good reason. By the time you work up to a single for 90% of that days target weight, you should know whether you want to backoff, stay where you are or pile on the plates.