hypertrophy training for powerlifters!!!!! (very surprised)

I just figured out something very interesting today. Take a look at all the newest literature on powerlifting and you will notice that most of it focuses on speed. Its all about CAT or DE workouts or what ever you want to call it. Powerlifters are a bit shy of hypertrophy type workouts because they are afraid that their type IIb muscle fibers will turn into type IIa muscle fibers.

CAT in powerlifting or any sports training actually is a very important thing. While Dr. Squat has always preached proper periodization which includes "sometimes you have to train like a bodybuilder", a lot (not all) the new literature in powerlifting stays as far away from such facts as possible. No hypertrophy work is done. And all I have to say about that is, who are the ones who spend the most time with such type of training? Its the folks training with gear. I can't deny the fact that with geared lifting and when it comes to practice, raw strength actually ends up taking a back seat when compared to the work and practice that needs to be done in order to get strong at the top of the lifts and to be good with the gear.

Nothing wrong with that. Thats just how the sport is. But the problem I see is that the uses of such training truly are limited mostly to geared lifting, and a lot of people might not understand that.

I was thinking of doing a raw contest in May. So for that reason I started looking up some literature on raw powerlifting because I was clueless how to train for it because I only competed in gear. I looked up the routines of some of the best benchers in the 100% raw federation which is also a drug tested federation. To my surprise they actually do a lot of hypertrophy work! They do train heavy, but none of the guys do less than 3 reps. And the world record holder for the 198 class actually spends time doing negatives. Say what ever you want about such type of training; I don't care what the literature says, because the best raw drug free (I hope they aren't cheating) lifters in the world are training that way and clearly its working for them.

This really surprises me because after getting a clear understanding of the structure of a muscle cell one would begin to realize that a bigger muscle is not necessarily a stronger muscle. However, I'm quite convinced by now that the ideas people extrapolate from such literature really isn't enough to make a significant difference. I think it is an accurate statement when some people say that a bigger muscle will be a stronger muscle; but you still have to train your brain and body to lift that heavy weight, otherwise you will never learn to get your muscles to do the work that they are maximally capable of.

All this talk probably isn't anything new to Dr. Squat. But I think its definitely something to realize and consider for anyone these days who is trying to get stronger. It actually was quite the shocking surprise for me!

And just to add on, in all the powerlifting contests I have been to you'd be surprised to know who it was that I thought had the most impressive raw strength. Keep in mind that in the UPA when you enter a contest you have the choice of entering as raw or with gear. Most of the powerlifters like the gear. Bodybuilders sometimes like to enter a powerlifting contest for fun and a lot of them do it raw. Well, its the bodybuilders. They always have some pretty respective raw strength especially when considering their strength to weight ratios. How ever, I have occasionally seen some powerlifters who specialize in raw do a real lot better!

Log?

Charles

Thank you for an interesting and insightful post.
Would you put your training log on the forum? I would be very interested to see your training progress and your thoughts as you go.

I compete 'semi-geared' (raw bench, belt + wraps + power pants for squat) but my federation permits single ply shirts and suits, so I am considering further options.

Nick

Nick, I will think about it

Nick,
I will think about it and consider putting up my training log. I never did that before. I don't think my raw lifts are very good right now, not for my size. My best raw bench was 320 @ 220. Now I'm 200 and my raw strength has gone down a bit probably from dieting. And I have seen guys bench close to 400 @ 198! I don't know if I could ever do that, but I realize that one step at a time is the road to success. I have already lifted more weight on many lifts then I thought I could ever do in a life time. So it definitely says something. So we will see.

What makes you think

What makes you think powerlifters don't do any hypertrophy work? Everyone I know does some. Also, how high are these 100% raw records? Most of the top shirted benchers are actually really good raw benchers.

www.wildirongym.com
www.tinyurl.com/WildIron

Marcus, Pardon, I shouldn't

Marcus,
Pardon, I shouldn't have said none, just much less. I trained with some of the best shirted benchers in the world on a weekly basis for almost 2 years and we spent most of our time doing sets of 1-3. A lot of them are great raw benchers, but not the best. Sebastian Burns used to tell me that when you spend more time in the shirt and working the top of the lift your raw bench takes a back seat and it can actually go down. That wasn't the case for me when I first started working out with those guys; it actually helped my raw. But I think that is more the case with more experienced lifters. Additionally, when guys worked out with us who didn't compete with gear, it was recommend training very similar work as what we were doing but with more time spent with more reps.

I'm not trying to say which one is better or anything like that. Because they are different federations with different rules. I guess the main point of my thread was how much it surprised me as to how those guys trained. Because I did sets of 10 many times in my training but nowhere near as much as the raw lifters did. And I don't think you can really make a valid statement when comparing the lifts in the different federations. Because they are different federations with different rules. Some federations are more strict about what you can do without cheating and others will let you get away with anything.

What about all the work they

What about all the work they do that's not in a shirt?

Strong people are strong. There's not too many 800+ shirted benchers that can't bench 500+ raw. How many raw 500+ benches do you see at raw meets?

www.wildirongym.com
www.tinyurl.com/WildIron

I think I know the answer...

Remember that there's nonfunctional hypertrophy and functional hypertrophy.

I think anything 10 reps and under increases the size of the sacromere - which is the "engine" of the muscle machine! Of course SOME hypertrophy here is going to help!

Strength is like 90% CNS, but a bigger engine, to a degree, will definitely help, right?

5 to 6 reps is still CNS to a degree, but also hits the white fibers.

Kid, you are absolutely

Kid,
you are absolutely right about that. I like the way you explain it. I actually suspected a long time ago that strength has a lot more to do with how the CNS has been trained as opposed to muscle fiber type. The main reasons for my suspicion is that a person can gain or lose a lot of weight on their lifts without gaining or losing muscle depending on the individual and their circumstances. I also don't know to what extent can your muscle fiber types change. And even if it did, how much of a significant difference will it make on your lifts? I highly doubt very much. Thats also why while muscle fiber types has been a big topic, these days I prefer not to even think about it. Its not like your type II fibers can convert to type I fibers. And your type IIa fibers will convert to type IIb fibers when you are resting anyways.

One of the guys on the other forum explained to me how strength is affected in two different ways. He explained to me that the ability to move weight is affected by the size of the muscle and the neural efficiency. Increased muscle size doesn't directly make you stronger, but it increases your potential to be stronger. So you can do a lot of reps to make the muscles bigger, but you have to do some heavy work in order to learn to utilize that strength potential.