Dr. Squat - Dr. Fred Hatfield

I have thought about this a lot in the past as well.
I personally don't think over training exists. (well, technically, if someone were to set out to do anything necessary to over train, than I am sure they would succeed)

For over a hundred years, people who lift weights or other heavy objects in an effort to change their body have trained nearly every day, if not every single day, for multiple hours a day. They did this before magazines, before innovative workout techniques, before supplements, AAS, etc.

I don't know why so many modern day self proclaimed guru's love to hold on to the idea of over training, and shout it every chance they get, but there is just no evidence to back it up.

Want to talk about strength training? Ok, lets talk Paul Anderson, the guy who did a 300 pound one arm overhead press, a 627 bench press, and a 1200 lbs deep squat for a double, BACK IN THE 50's! He trained 6 to 7 days a week, ALL DAY LONG.

Bodybuilding? Let's talk Arnold, or Franco, or Zane, or any of those guys. They would train 6 days a week, 4-5 hours a day. Not only did they build legendary physiques, but many of them did it in record time. (Note that Arnold was only 28 when he decided to temporarily retire from bodybuilding, because he had already won 6 Mr.O titles)

You already mentioned Gable for wrestling.
Marciano, also, like nearly all of the old school boxers, trained nearly every day, all day.

To me it has become a joke. Every single champion of every single sport will open up and tell people how he trained, and then every single "guru" out there (that guy who is famous for not ever excelling) will shout that he is a "rare exception to the rule, because he has freaky good genetics".

Just seems odd that no matter their height, weight, race, family history, genetic makeup, etc. That all of the most successful athletes of every sport seem to do what most people call "over train", where these Guru's that apparently have it all figured out and work out "perfect" and eat "perfect" and use the "perfect balance of supplements" and "sleep perfect" etc, never actually make a name for themselves, because they don't stand out from any other gym rat.

I personally have been working out since I was 14. I never made great gains. My greatest gains have all come in the past year, though, when I decided to "unlearn" all the traditional crap we are taught about training, diet, etc and just listen to my body.
I eat when I am hungry, I sleep when I am tired, I work out when I feel like my body can handle it. For me, if I do bench press all day long, and then 2 days later I am not sore and my chest feels good, I will do bench press again. I have even done bench press up to 5 times in one week. If I am sore or feel worn out for 4 to 5 days, then I will not touch a weight, and I will let my body rest until It feels ready. Same with squat, deadlift, etc.
The results? I am way bigger, insanely stronger, and perform at a much higher level than I ever before in the preceding 7-8 years of training.

I guess I do agree that it is possible to over train, I mean, simply, over training is to push your body past where it can comfortably go, and doing it way to often.
I guess when i say it does not exist, that is a bit black and white. I think it does exist, but is very hard to do if using any sort of common sense. (aka, if your chest is so sore you can't stretch your arms without pain, than don't train chest again).

I just think that ever since the term came about, it has snowballed into something that people use way too much.
With Arny and the rest, they would work the same muscles up to three times a week, along with other muscles in the same day, and there was so much volume it ended up having to be an AM/PM schedule, which was then done 6 times a week, and as said, 4-5 hours a day. Where today, there are people who suggest that if you work a muscle longer than 45 minutes, once a week, you are over training (which I think is crap).

Paul Anderson: I have read a few articles about him. He did in fact rest up to 30 minutes between sets. His workouts did last most of the day, though. From what I have read of him, he would do odd workouts like set up a bar at one end of the yard for shoulder press, then set up a bar at the other end of the yard for squat. Then, he would burn himself out on a set of shoulder press, hit a golf ball over to the squat area, go get the golf ball, stop, burn out on squats, hit the gold ball back to the shoulder press area, and repeat, all day long.
I also read that although he rested a lot between sets, if you consider The amount of weight he was using, over the course of 6-10 hours in a day, then he repeats that workout 3x a week, etc. This would fall back into the category of what most people call "over training".

I guess to more accurately describe how I feel about it is this. Every single person on this planet is different. Narrow it down to just one person (lets say you, for example) and even YOU are different from YOU. That's right, on a day to day, week to week basis, you are different. Your body has to regulate, fight, build, support, transition, rest, work, etc etc etc so much that to think your body is a photo copy of itself from one day to the next is crazy. Some people just call these "good days" and "bad days". So to try and sound smart and educated by saying that there is only one set way, or a very few set options, of how to work out, eat, rest, etc. is crazy.

There is no real rule of thumb. If you do something, and your body responds well to it, than that is how YOU need to train. It's not under training, it is not over training, for you, it is training just right. So when someone looks at another person's training, especially a very successful athlete, and basically says they are wrong, because they over train, it's just ridiculous.

Over training can happen, but there are no set in stone guidelines for where and when it will take place. If what you are doing is working, than keep doing it, no matter what the "guru's" tell you.

This is what works for me anyway.

But can one overtiring.... Sure. They can overtrain from too much activity, lack of rest and recovery and nutrient deficiencies. But, as I've said many times, it's very difficult to overtrain it takes a significant amount of time training with significant volume and intensity to overtrain.

Also, there are different ways to overtrain. When you look at ultra marathoners like Dean Karnaze, it appears that over training aerobically is virtually impossible, however.... If you were to take a shot putter and have him run 3 miles a day, he could possibly be overtrained within the week. Why? Well, Karnaze estimates that it takes 2 years of training to reach the point where you can run double marathons, or a hundred miles.

Likewise, how many powerlifters have overtrained their nervous system by going too heavy for too long? Plenty. Even weightlifters in virtually every weightlifting 'system' average 3 reps per set over the year because they can't maintain singles forever, they have to do some sets of 4-6 occasionally.

Also, consider that one can overtiring a movement. Powerlifters are often guilty of this with the bench press. They'll perform good mornings, glute ham raises, reverse hypers, sled drags, etc. For the lower body to improve squats and deadl lifts, but for Tyne bench press.... They bench press with boards.... The shoulders don't see the difference! Point being, there often isn't enough variety and the movement pattern becomes overtrained to the point of causing injury. Bodybuilders often have elbow issues due to too many Supinated bicep curl movements and not enough pronated movements.

So, yes, overtraining is very real and possible, but if you have sufficient variety in training, adjust intensity appropriately, then you combine a high level of conditioning, you move the the ceiling of what constitutes overtraining way up compared to Joe average.

However, while I do assert that overtraining from a physiological standpoint is difficult to do, and generally does take time, also consider..... How much time does it or should it take to reach your goals? As a sport coach, you want athletes in optimal condition with minimal time investment in the weight room, on the track, etc. Why? More time for skill acquisition and perfection. Therefore, strength coaches SHOULD look for the methods and techniques that offer the most bang for the buck. Therefore we shouldn't seek out how much working out we can accomplish without overtraining, we should figure out how little we need to reach our goals. That's one point Mentzer had correct, but obviously I would disagree with his solution to it.

There's a difference between minimal training, maximum training and optimal training. Which is another way to say that you must determine whether it's Goo, Better, or Best.

I mean, in my opinion, Crossfit is nonsense, but compared to playing video games, it's good. Compared to bicycling, it's better. Compared to intelligent weight training.... It's not best.

Also...

You have to consider the TOTAL 'stress' on your body (not JUST training) and the recovery conditions that are provided.

Paula Radcliffe will run 140miles/week in her endurance phase - and sleep 12-13 hours in every 24. That 3-4 hours training per day is her JOB, and the total stress on her body. She also optimises the other factors in her life to favour recovery from training - ART massage, ice baths etc. Arnie trained 4-5 hours per day, didn't do much else to stress his system, and took a bucketload of steroids.

Hold down a full-time job, with the related stress (physical, mental or emotional) and only have time for 7 hours sleep each night... it makes a difference.

When I was seventeen, I could do whatever the hell I wanted, sleep well, eat well ... plenty of testosterone and GH naturally in my body - no cares and responsibilities. Slept 9 hours - even on the late nights, I could sleep in, no trouble. Overtraining? Maybe, but it didn't show up like it does now.

As you get older, stress and responsibilities increase, favourable hormones decrease (of course you can do something about that, but it's another thread entirely) and so it's much easier to overtrain.

So you have to optimise your training according to the conditions you have to work around. I'm a teacher, and I can make my biggest gains over the summer - it's not rocket science to work out the reasons. Last week it was parents evening, so I had to work 7am to 8pm for three days - no training, but I didn't feel up to it anyway.

...

.02

Nick