Dr. Squat - Dr. Fred Hatfield

That's standard rehashed BS that's been retold for years. Ice applied to the skin melts unless you're in sub freezing temps already!

I've used ice extensively and regularly for 20 years, seen it used with countless other athletes in countless training rooms. Put the ice where it hurts!

Ice cup massage applied directly to injured areas works wonders but goes against every ignorant recommendation by those supposed experts.

As for frost bite or nerve damage, it would be something to worry about except for the fact that it never happens.

Ok, while we're on the subject...

RICE

Now, the "compression" part of rice. Seriously, does anyone use this one? I mean do you really NEED compression?

Wouldn't this only be used if you like NEARLY TORE YOUR FOOT OFF and the swelling was tremendous and extreme and you needed to keep it down somehow? I dont really see many athletes wrapping themselves after using ice all the time. Ice seems to be the most important for 90% of more common injuries... and only those serious tendon and ligament tears need compression...

Who thinks so?

I have once gotten this "ice burn", but it was from a reusable ice pack not from ice itself. My left knee was giving me a bit of hell, so I put the pack on and used a knee wrap to hold it in place. . . for far too long. The result was a large stinging red mark that was moderately irritated for about a week, but nothing else to my knowledge. If I damaged any nerves in or around my knee. . . no symptoms yet.

As a child prone to throwing myself off roofs, and other such Calvin and Hobbes like activities, my mother would often bring me ice cubes wrapped in a towel. I assume this is the proper method (all science aside. . . mother's always right), and there is no drippy mess to deal with.

Compression is very effective at limiting, preventing, & controlling swelling.

Todd I know based on reading the board you are very much in tune with Charles Poliquin's training methods. For the record, I very much enjoy your posts as well as Poliquin's writing. However, within the last couple of years he was quoted in a T-Nation article saying...

"Ice massage is for dorks, only raises your cortisol, and doesn't do shit."

Here is the link (quote found @ bottom of 2nd page):

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performa...

I'm asking because I know you have a lot of respect for Poliquin (as do I) but you seem to differ on the subject (one which I know little about) and am hoping to learn more.

Thank you.

That makes sense- thanks.

Ice actually increases inflammation. That's why it's effective to control swelling. It causes additional inflammation as the cold is a stressor. This draws blood into the area.

However, the cold causes tissue to contract preventing them from holding fluids and even blood that causes swelling.

Well, upon injury, yes. Cortisol is already rising, which is a desired response at that time. Cortisol helps us deal with stress. Injury certainly qualifies.

However, using ice purportedly as a "recovery" tool from a hard workout as was mentioned, then no I don't think so.

Do 10 sets of squats and apply ice to one quad but not the other and see which one is more stiff and sore in the morning.

Many other more viable methods of recovery like self massage that makes a much bigger, more positive, difference.

In acute injury it can help to reduce inflammation, but it does so via the mechanism I explained in being inflammatory..... and for that reason it's not very effective as a recovery modality.

It's useful for treating acute injuries that involve, in order to prevent, swelling.

Stop trying to accept a concept outright and pointing to who's right or wrong and try to figure out why something is the way it is. Perspective is a hell of a thing to deal with sometimes.

Ice on the skin causes inflammation. However, it can be used to reduce inflammation.

Hold on to your pants now....

One of the best ways to cope with stress..... is to add stress in the form of exercise.

One of the best ways to improve a weak heart???? Increase heart rate.

One of the best ways to lose fat? Eat more fat! (assuming it's the right kind)

One of the best ways to increase metabolism? Eat more meals!

By the way I invented all of these things!

Todd Weider