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Benchpress Scapular retraction and "Scapular Bench"

Thu, 04/01/2010 - 5:52am — patrickt

Hi All!
I tried the search button for this question, maybe i used the wrong terms (biomechanics benchpress, scapular bench,etc..).

Firstly i am just genetically cursed with an extremely poor benchpress ( in my 30`s 220-240 lbs at 163 lb bodywgt), very obvious with the size (lack of it) and strength (again lack of it)in my chest, shoulder and tricep exercises, as well as corresponding injuries.

I plan to try competing again next year (3 lifts) but have been plagued with shoulder problems that has been diagnosed by a sports doc as an unstable scapular platform. All our gym has is a FLAT bench.

So finally, i need to know the deal with the generally accepted idea of keeping the Scapula RETRACTED during the entire lift. Some people believe it may be detrimental in the longrun due to a lack of scapular movement. Its been suggested to position a half cylinder running the length of my back from head to hips. Or perhaps you guys have other ideas for modifying the flat bench into a "Scapular flat bench" ?

Of course this assumes i go on a scapular muscles strengthening program. THANKS!
patrick

‹ shirted bench Chiropractic or magic? ›
Thu, 04/01/2010 - 1:22pm — Nick Hinde

mid back and external rotators

Hi Patrick

You sound similar to me. I'm re-thinking my bench strategy.

You might want to do some work on the mid/upper back.
Chins/pullups to the sternum have helped me with all sorts of things.

I do pull-ups on a v-bar, using a 3-second negative, pulling my sternum to the bar and holding for a second at the top. These are hard to do under control, but do wonders for scapular retraction.

Rope rows to the neck will help.
Rack pulls are another possibility (although I'm not recommending those from personal experience).

Try this t-nation link:

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performa...

You might also look at structural balance and the external rotators of the shoulder. Not trying to push t-nation, but this is a helpful article:

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performa...

Hope that's of some help to you.

Nick

Thu, 04/01/2010 - 2:53pm — DrSquat
DrSquat's picture

Some old ad copy for a scap=pad bench I invented

• Say goodbye to injured rotator cuffs
• Bench press 10% more than ever before
• Indispensibe for athletes and fitness training alike

A bench press bench can only be built one way. According to the rules of powerlifting, right?

NOT! SportStrength manufactures the finest competition model bench press benches ever conceived. We also have the revolutionary Adjustable Sport Bench featuring the patented curved back design for athletes. Even powerlifters. It’s safer and more effective than a conventional flat bench. But folks, NOWHERE have you EVER seen or imagined anything like the totally revolutionary, awesome, SCAP-PAD® bench!

Consider: Lying on your back with 300-400 or more pounds in your hands pressing your scapulae into the flat bench beneath. You lower the bar to your chest. But the scapulae are pinned to the bench and cannot slide inwards as you lower the bar. And neither can they slide outward as you raise the bar off your chest. This is not good! It causes undue stress on the tendons of the long heads of your biceps. The results?

• Nagging long-lasting pain from biceps tendinitis
• You can’t lift as much
• Far less strength is developed
• Poor sports performance.

On top of that, all benches are made to be 16 or more inches off the ground. Just because the rules of powerlifting dictate it. This is downright dangerous for shorter athletes who have to go into spinal hyperextension in order to keep their feet flat on the ground for better stability. The results?
• low back trauma
• less stability during training and therefore greater exposure to injury and less weight being lifted
• poor sports performance, or (worse)
• ruined sports career from unnecessary injury

All because the conventional powerlifting bench press bench is all you ever had available to you! Ask yourself this: Are you training competitive powerlifters? Or are you training athletes for sports other than powerlifting?

Now picture this: Same weight, same bench. But with a little patented gizmo built into the bench that allows your scapulae to slide in as you lower the bar, and back out as you press it back upward. This is how Mother Nature intended for your shoulder girdle to operate. Add to that the fact that the SportStrength Scap-Pad® bench is adjustable in height for tall and short athletes alike. The results?
• Far less chance of biceps tendinitis
• 10 percent more weight lifted
• greater strength is developed
• no unnecessary trauma to the lumbar spine
• better sports performance, not only because you’re stronger but because you’re healthier!

You just won’t believe it until you’ve experienced it! Your athletes are gonna LOVE it! Your team doctor is gonna LOVE it, and your team trainers are gonna LOVE it!

By the way -- as a reminder -- we HIGHLY recommend that our spotter rails be a standard feature on all SportStrength benches you purchase. Why? SAFETY is ALWAYS the right thing to do!
#0010 REVOLUTIONARY SCAP-PAD

Thu, 04/01/2010 - 10:41pm — Todd Wilson
Todd Wilson's picture

Patrick, Scapular

Patrick, Scapular instability is something that's relatively easy to treat if you can find a competent coach.

It's typically a result of weak external rotators and scapula retractors. Also, there's often length tension relationship issues.

As for benching with/without scapula movement..... Doc's been trying to tell people about the basic kinesiology of the bench press for 25 years at least. Regardless..... whether you do or do not in competition doesn't really matter so long as you move the most weight with the movement you use.

In training however, the scapula have got to move, otherwise you will invariably have problems. One of my favorite movements as it allows the greatest ROM for the scapula is the one armed Dumb Bell press with a split stance. With a dumb bell shoulder high in your left hand, use your right hand to hold on to a power rack, wall etc. for support. Put your right foot forward and your left foot behind you with your knees slightly bent.

Don't use any leg english to cheat. Now with your palm facing your ear, press the DB as high as possible. Your bicep should make contact with your ear, but don't move your head.

It's a great shoulder exercise to use in rehab, size, and strength building. Assuming it causes no pain/problems, it will allow your scapula to move over a greater ROM and assuming you strengthen the trap III, rhomboids and external rotators, you should be able to eliminate any problems you're currently having.

Thu, 04/01/2010 - 11:19pm — Mutsanah

I have used the exercise to

I have used the exercise to which Todd refers and with good success. I do the same weight for 4-5 sets and actually get stronger as I continue thru the set progression - as if my shoulder opens up with more flexibility to allow a better contraction. Usually 5 sets of 5 reps each arm, 60 secs rest.

Can't figure out how to close grip bench whilst still protecting the scaps though... Sad

Fri, 04/02/2010 - 3:04am — Nick Hinde

Todd

Sounds like a 'humbling' exercise...

Fri, 04/02/2010 - 3:07pm — Todd Wilson
Todd Wilson's picture

Not really.... I mean, you

Not really.... I mean, you can get to where you can handle pretty big weights on it. If you are not strong in your core, you will really feel it in your abs and low back. It requires stabilization in every plane of motion.

Also, Charles Poliquin asserts that, assuming your strength levels are balanced, your 8RM in it should represent roughly 29% of your Close Grip bench. I've found that to be pretty accurate with myself.

I've also found it to be a great hypertrophy builder. He introduced me to the movement 6 or 7 years ago, and frankly I wish I had thought about or considered when rehabbing my shoulder on the fly back in 1996.

The key is to use a full ROM and keep your elbow back... as you fatigue it will want to drift forward to recruit the anterior delt and clavicular portion of the pec more.

It's one of a handful of non-basic movements (squat, deadlift, chin, dip, bench press, etc...) that not a lot of trainers use, but really should.

Sat, 04/03/2010 - 6:46pm — Mutsanah

Todd, so I've been working

Todd, so I've been working on this one arm DB press. Did it today as my last exercise so not sure what my 8RM would be. Using Poliquin's formula with a 330 close grip I should be at a 95lb DB - is that right?

Today I did One Arm Clean/Push Press then Mil Press then Dips. The last exercise was the strict one arm DB press, 70x5 reps - 4 sets, 90 secs rest. It's getting better, I started a few weeks ago at the 60. Should I place this exercise earlier in routine?

Sat, 04/03/2010 - 10:09pm — Todd Wilson
Todd Wilson's picture

I probably would to improve

I probably would to improve shoulder strength as it may be limiting you in other movements.... and not just pressing movements, but any movement that requires shoulder integrity.

Sat, 04/03/2010 - 10:11pm — Todd Wilson
Todd Wilson's picture

Although..... if you can

Although..... if you can press 90-95lbs fresh you might want to just carry on....

Mon, 04/05/2010 - 8:13am — patrickt

Guys, THANK YOU all for the

Guys, THANK YOU all for the replies!
I realize my dilemma is a "classic", just that i`ve taken my scapular platform for granted all these uh.. decades. In fact i first heard about it back in the 80`s with one of Doc`s books, shame on me Sad

Funny thing is that i`ve always had a relatively stronger back (the whole back pretty much). At a time when i (at 163 lbs) had a 1rm raw benchpress of only 220 lbs i did a conventional deadlift with over 550 lbs (my early 20`s). In my early 30`s, with only a slightly stronger benchpress,still a middleweight, i could do 2 reps with a normal grip (full rom) chin up with a 100lb wgt strapped on me.

But regardless, i just started reading up on the basic biomech (a subject i`m not too good at) of the benchpress and will take your advice (though i spent 2 months doing light-moderate wgt for all scapular movements like elevation-depression, protraction-retraction, internal-external rotators,etc..).

At this point though, i still need some suggestions on determining the diameter of the half cylinder i mentioned in my first post, both from a anthropometric approach (kept simple enough i hope), and from a seat of the pants approach.

Dr Squat-
THANK YOU for the ad. I would have really wanted to try it out, unfortunately our gym is on a tight budget.
patrick