Dr. Squat - Dr. Fred Hatfield

The only time anyone can criticise others for using drugs is if they are 100% drug free themselves. By this I mean truely drug free as in LIFETIME drug free. I dunno who has and who hasn't used on this site; it isn't my business and I don't care. I suppose all I'm saying is: 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'.

Charles, if you fall into the lifetime drug free category then you have the right to criticise knowing that you aren't being hypocritical.

If you don't fall into this category then you leave yourself open to accusations of hypocrisy.

why beat around the bush just ask and the answer is yes i'm lifetime drug free.

now the statement and the post was made in defense of prior debates that have accured on this forum.

now if you have been around this forum for awhile then you probably would know why i made that post.

i like it comes to the IPF and drug abuse it ok because they try to control it that's so much crap.

BTW it was RUSSIA , HUNGRY and the UKRAIN basically there saying the whole fed is juiced.

so much for the IPF being better than everyone else.

now if your willing to pay for the test i'll take it.

The truth is finally coming out. WHo in the hell actually thought they were drug free? It doesn't take a genius to figure this out. Each Eastern country shows up to WOrlds absolutely ripped and the USAPL lifters actually believed it was their superior training putting them ahead lol. These Eastern Countries barely have a running government and the IPF actually believed that their powerlifting officials actually gave drug test? I guarantee you that each country is run like the old 1980's USPF. The only drug test they see is when they go to worlds. Juice all year long and then go off for amonth before worlds. I have no problem with this but dont' walk around with your nose in the air like your drug free. This actually might be good for the WPO/WPC since most won't haVE a place to lift now.

They are significantly shortening their lifespan by taking steriods.
I do not like federations which allow drug use for that reason . They should be outlawed. It's a bit paternalistic perhaps . But it would good for the image of the sport. There are few, if any other sports which sanction drug use.
As the drugs are illegal the federations shoudl also be illegal and void by definition.

Illegal where? The drugs aren't illegal in Mexico. They are available over the counter.

So if I live in Southern California or Texas and drive accross the border, load up and come home, have I broken any laws in the States? Nope.

It wouldn't be any more illegal than my going on vacation to Amsterdam and hitting the hash bars and the red light disctrict.

... I gotta get that Visa renewed!!

"If powerlifters across the board dump the gear and go raw who knows, maybe one day they will be able to look Olympic weightlifters in the eye and command the same level of respect that they do."

why not get rid od eletricity ,cars , running water , air conditioning and gas stoves those have all aided also. you can't turn the clock back and why would you.

look i've been to many meet and lifters at meet are the nicest and most helpfull people i have ever meant. it does'nt matter if it's raw or not.

i'll never give up my gear i like it to much . yeah that's right gear for life baby. hea i'm still impress by raw lifts though it take a lot of balls .

I know what you mean. I mean look at two of the greatest powerlifters of all time that post on this board. The gov of California, Jesse Ventura, Kaz, Alexy Vasily, any Olympic athlete that medaled in a power sport in the 70's-80's. They will all be dead by the time they reach 40 and never amount to anything you cheaters!!!

I just have a question concerning olympic lifters since they are always said to be "legit" drug free lifters and everyone always wants to compare other lifting sports such as powerlifting to olympic lifting as though that is the actual standard that needs to be lived up to in order for the sport to be taken seriously. So what's the deal on the testing of olympic lifters for drugs? How clostly are they monitored and how often are they tested? Can some of them be taking some sort of new drug that is harder to be detected? So how do we know they all really are drug free? When you see the numbers some of these guys get in training it sort of makes you wonder. A full ass to the grass truly raw squat with 320 kg is nuts! I am not going to say it's impossible to do drug free, but it is crazy and it does make me wonder. So what's the deal folks? Why does everyone give a damn so much about the olympics? By the way, in my opinion, some of the other sports they have in the olympics are really dumb and I can't see why people would want to do them. Notice how I said some, not all!

Charles Izzo,

I agree with you totally that the power of these weightlifters is freaky and it would be naieve to assume that these guys were all natural. I think one thing that any sport, especially strength sport has to accept is the use of performance enhancing drugs in the upper echelons. It has to be accepted because there is no way to stop it entirely. Steroids could be referred to as a covert peformance enhancer. Powerlifting gear however, is an overt performance enhancer which can be regulated. Personally speaking, I have more respect for Olympic lifters because they compete 100% raw. It makes it easier to rank lifters across the board because they all compete under the same criteria: unequipped. Varying equipment criteria in the multitudinous federations has led to the fragmented, bitchy state of affairs that currently characterises powerlifting. The Oly Lifters in my view command more respect because: a) they're unequipped b) the technicality of the lifts involved c) being an Olympic sport naturally confers more respect.

Dunno if I'm right or not but I thought those knee wraps they wear are to keep the joint warm. I didn't think that they contributed at all to the lift. As for belts I thought that only a few O lifters wore them. Like I say, I might be wrong.

That's a little disappointing but it's nice they took action. If you go to IPF world's and you're from the US, then you sign an agreement to be tested at anytime and have to provide work and home addresses. One of the guys I train with has gone.

If guys really want to do steriods, then they should just go to a federation that doesn't test. Unfortunately, I think the major pro sports in the US set a horrible example for this. They are so far from clean that it's a joke.

“I am not saying if they compete in such organizations they are on drugs.
But they condone the drug us. It also follows IMO that they are not anti-drug.
Also I did not say the best were necessarily on drugs. If you choose to compete in federations which allow drugs, everyone will think you are
on drugs.
Irrespective of OL testing procedure they do not openly condone drug-use.

Arnold very nearly died from drugs. The others were not drug-users as far as I know. There is a strong possibility the ones that died by 40 or in their early 40s were.”

How come if you use to be a bodybuilder or football player and you get ill it’s because you did steroids?

Now if you are a regular guy it’s because you smoke, ate bad or you have genetic tendencies because of family history.

We claim to be a nation of personal rights a woman’s right to abortion, soon the right to marry the same gender, the right to ride a motorcycle without a helmet.

Now you question someone’s choice to compete in a non tested powerlifting meet.
The fact is once you have gotten to a point in the tested part of your fed.

What point does it make to show up just to collect a trophy?
Now if that’s what you’re all about then do that but I like to beat the best where ever they are.

To be the best you have to beat the best not complain that there on steroids and think that makes you better. It just makes you a big whiner.

there's a lot of thing that people need to be protected from but at what point do we let people do there own thing.

And exactly what proof do you have that verifies that fact?

What I find irratating are those who take a small piece of information and leap to a conclusion.

Try sticking with the facts...

Kenny Croxdale

oh btw try reading all poost first.

There is nothing to back up this statement.

I am not advocating the use of steriods.

What I advocate is empirical research be presented and let the piece fall where they may.

Kenny Croxdale

clarke died i think of complication from an car accident i think in england.

Yeah like all these WWF stars dying. They were fat gets too right.
Just becuase u can't pinpoint steriods as the cause of death . It does not mean they are not very harmful. Obviously diet is the major factor in most deaths hereditary heart conditions aside. Anyway they are all going to claim hereditary hear defects. It not nice to admit they died of drug-abuse.
that's even leaving the women out. They can't hide the damage substance abuse does. Women with the squarest jaws you have ever seen and huge rounded shoulders.

It's like these alcohols with congenital liver discfunction. BS more often than not. You all see plenty of PL and esp BB dying of steriod use and of course the sheer size will put extra pressure on their hearts.

I dont use steroids but i like to research such things. Then I know I won't come onto a public forum and spout so much crap that it will make me look like a blithering idiot, so how about doing a bit of research 9th wonder!!! check the list of lifters that tony quist mentioned and tell me again that you are not aware that any of them have used gear :roll:

Nice posts Big Daddy, I also compete in non tested meets whilst not using gear and i agree 100% that moaning about it makes you a big whinger.

I love how drug free is associated with RAW!!! whilst multi ply equipment is associated with lifters juiced to the gills! To who said that powerlifting should become raw to get a little bit more respect I say that raw lifting should be banned and that everyone should have to wear equipment. But you dont like to lift that way you say, well i dont want to compete without equipment so enough with the everyone should go raw bullshit, everyone should lift were they want to lift!! I have no less respect for the raw guys than i do for the equipped guys and am not against raw lifting i'd just rather lift with equipment. I lift raw in training but the problem i have with raw comps is the ones that i have seen have such a shit atmosphere there is no point going. now if there was a raw comp that had the atmosphere of a wpo finals i would definately be tempted to compete.

So a person who takes steroids can't criticize another person who takes steroids?? I like how people group steroid users into one camp. Is this like saying that one Republican can't criticize another Republican? People sling so much shit around about the steroid subject that it is laughable. Most people (and I bet some in this discussion) don't even really know what the hell a "steroid" is. Should you be able to be in this conversation if you can't draw the chemical structure of a "steriod"? Well here goes....
UGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

Never trust a Rusky!

As you note, there is NO evidence that Clark died of steriods. One does NOT have anything to do with the other.

A great analogy is this one one, Proof That Pickes Are Bad For You. These statistic back it up.

"Nearly all sick people have eaten pickles; therefore, the effects are obviously cumulative.

Of all the people who die from cancer, 99% have eaten pickles.
100% of all soldiers have eaten pickles; therefore, pickles must be related to wars.

98.8% of all Communist sympathizers have eaten pickles.

99.7% of all the people involved in the air and auto accidents ate pickles within 14 days preceding the tragedy.

93.1% of all juvenile delinquents come from homes where pickles are served frequently."

SO IT MUST BE TRUE!

Kenny Croxdale

I guarantee it will never work if you never try it.

Well illustrated Superman....

Are we really dredging up the steroid arguments of 2006? Ventrical, or cardiac, hypertrophy is a condition of increased muscle mass reducing the potential volume in the chambers of the heart. Because of the reduced volume, the heart has to work harder. When this condition reaches a certain point, it will cause cardiac arrest.

When a post mortem is performed, cause of death is listed as heart failure due to ventricle hypertrophy.

If a person used steroids for 15 years before developing this condition, ceased taking the drug once diagnosed, and dies as a result, this statistic is not captured. Only that ventricle hypertrophy has led to heart failure.

So steroids would be the indirect cause in this scenario. Due to the absence of long term scientific studies on the result of persistent steroid abuse, it is difficult to convince someone committed to the belief/rationalization that there are no ill effects.

In the absence of data, we must sometimes resort to common sense.

There is NO research that show to be true.

Causation
Prolonged steroid use can cause liver damage.
People die from liver failure.
Liver failure (death) can be attributed to steroids

It the same as ssying a someone sail of in the sea and never returns. Thus, the world is flat.

Kenny Croxdale

I guarantee it will never work if you never try it.