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EMG findings on different exercises on lats, biceps.
Sun, 02/04/2007 - 10:44pm — quazimodo
"Signoreli et al [1] investigated the influence of grip width and line of pull during the lat pulldown on latissimus dorsi and other muscle group's electromyographic (EMG) activity. The authors found that using a pronated wide grip while pulling anterior to the head resulted in the greatest myoelectric activity of the latissimus dorsi when compared to widegrip pulldowns pulled posterior to the head, pulldowns using a supinated grip and pulldowns using a close grip. This same trend was also found with the triceps muscle. The influence of these exercises on biceps brachii was not investigated."
"Conclusion
The wide grip lat pulldown demonstrated a small but non-significant increase in the activity of the latissimus dorsi compared with the supinated grip pulldown. This same small increase is seen in biceps muscle when using a supinated grip versus the wide grip during the lat pulldown. Due to the small changes in muscle activity there appears to be very little difference in muscle activity between the wide grip lat pulldown and the supinated grip lat pulldown for the biceps and latissimus dorsi muscles.
Additionally, the seated row while recruiting the latissimus dorsi and biceps brachii more or equally effectively as the lat pulldown also recruits the middle trapezius/rhomboid muscle group to a greater extent. Actively retracting the scapula does not appear to increase activation levels of the middle trapezius/rhomboid muscle group. However, from previous research this position does appear to provide superior shoulder stability."
Interesting article, would it be acceptable to apply its findings to pullups? Furthermore, why they hell didn't they do this study on pullups? Seems to me they probably did it to reduce the number of variables but it also seems to me that the findings aren't as relevant as if they had used a pullup.[/url]
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Re: EMG findings on different exercises on lats, biceps.
They probably used the pulldown because it was easier to set up the EMG that way; some systems are a pain in the butt when you have someone up in the air on a bar. It would be okay but not quite correct to apply the findings to chinups/pullups, as the body (and thus the shoulder joint) change position during a *up more than a pulldown. The same general trends probably hold though.
One thing to note when looking at these studies is that more EMG activity doesn't equate to more force production. While it's useful information and can be pretty directly applied to body building and some rehab applications, when it comes to training for strength and performance, other factors have to be taken into account such as the line of pull of the muscle, how it's wrapped, the load used, etc.
-Dan
EMG findings on different exercises on lats, biceps.
I understand what you mean, but regardless of how much weight you can shift, does the EMG give an accurate prediction of how hard a muscle is working?
I know that EMG electrodes can create all sorts of their own artifacts and signal noise, would be interesting if they got it right though.
EMG findings on different exercises on lats, biceps.
I know that EMG electrodes can create all sorts of their own artifacts and signal noise, would be interesting if they got it right though.
How hard a muscle is working? ....yes, it will show that depending on how you define that. More activation does equate to more fibers being recruited.
My point was more along the lines of the length tension relationship and net torque produced. For example, your traps will actually fire more motor units in a snatch grip position than a conventional deadlift position given an equal load (say 225 for visualization purposes). Also, you will recruit more fibers (and thus produce a larger amplitude EMG burst) when you're tired vs when you're fresh when performing the same task. I.e., your quads will fire more on a 225lbs full squat on rep 15 of a set than they did on rep 1.
Then you also get a bushing effect on eccentric movements, resulting in more force being produced per motor unit recruited vs less force per motor unit recruited on concentric movements.
It's fun stuff
EMG findings on different exercises on lats, biceps.
Interesting EMG data:
Hamstrings
Standing leg curls - 82%
Lying leg curls - 71%
Seated leg curls - 58%
Stiff-legged-deadlift - 56%
I have always found the lying leg curl to be more effective than the seated leg curl. The trainers at our gym are trying to get the gym to get rid of the lying leg curl as they think it is archaic. Yet EMG data indicates it is more effective.
EMG findings on different exercises on lats, biceps.
Hamstrings
Standing leg curls - 82%
Lying leg curls - 71%
Seated leg curls - 58%
Stiff-legged-deadlift - 56%
I have always found the lying leg curl to be more effective than the seated leg curl. The trainers at our gym are trying to get the gym to get rid of the lying leg curl as they think it is archaic. Yet EMG data indicates it is more effective.
Makes sense to me. How could an exercise where you're sitting on the muscle you're trying to work be optimally effective?
EMG findings on different exercises on lats, biceps.
Hamstrings
Standing leg curls - 82%
Lying leg curls - 71%
Seated leg curls - 58%
Stiff-legged-deadlift - 56%
I have always found the lying leg curl to be more effective than the seated leg curl. The trainers at our gym are trying to get the gym to get rid of the lying leg curl as they think it is archaic. Yet EMG data indicates it is more effective.
Most gym equipment has a higher IQ than most trainers.
EMG findings on different exercises on lats, biceps.
Wish they had tested GHR's in that hamstring study.
Interesting article, would
Interesting article, would it be acceptable to apply its findings to pullups?
### To a degree, but after 6 workouts or so, you will stimulate greater adaptation with virtually ANY other grip.
Furthermore, why they hell didn't they do this study on pullups?
### Because it's hard to find a group of test subjects that can perform more than 1 or 2 pull ups.
what do you mean any other
what do you mean any other grip, anything other than standard pullup or wide grip pullup?
;----------------------------------------------------
#strongman on EFNet
(nvm quall, hes our resident anti-troll)
Yeah, Constantly vary pull
Yeah, Constantly vary pull up grips. Use wider grips, narrower grips, supinated, pronated, mixed grips, hold onto towels, one hand on a towel one on the bar, pull yourself towards one hand then the other, use one hand with a narrow grip the other with a wide grip, then switch on the next set.
I've used dozens of various pull up grips..... rock climbing boards usually have pretty good discussions with variety ideas.
oh gotcha, was on the wrong
oh gotcha, was on the wrong track, we do that
;----------------------------------------------------
#strongman on EFNet
(nvm quall, hes our resident anti-troll)