Dr. Squat - Dr. Fred Hatfield

AGREED! I asked Doc about this a month ago and he said the 'new' ABC approach on this website has superceded the old one as outlined in the book.

Oh yeah, and one other note. The original A workouts in the book said you were not supposed to do ANY part of the negative. E.g. for bench you press the weight, then your training partners lower the weight for you. You ONLY do the positive portion on your "A" day.

Note that it's Figure 7-5 (page 40) outlines the 2-workouts per day (AM-PM) prescription ("Double Variable Split Training for Elite Bodybuilders").

Hmmm. Not sure what to think as "near maximum effort" isn't the same as "60% of one's 1RM" unless they are really cutting the rest times short. 10x10 at that pace practically turns an "A" workout into German Volume Training.

In my noob opinion.

The post by the OP is why I like the 28 day routine rather than applying ABCs to a more traditional "body parts" or "movements" routine. The original post here is a lot of work in a day. However, while doing the 28 day routine (I have done about 5 cycles) only a couple of times did the exercises pile up in one day. Even on those days, I was still able to complete the workout in 60mins.

Exactly, the Numbers aren't holy, but the concept is.

I have found great success using Figure 7-5 - the double split training from the book. I do not do the routines as double split every day, but only on those days where the workout would take longer than 50-55 minutes total, on those days I will split in half.

My A, B, and C routines were revised from the book and from those on the site

A routine 3 sets @ ~65% of 1RM for 6 reps

B routine 2-3 movements, 3 sets each movements, 1st set for 9-12 reps, 2nd set for 4-8 reps, 3rd set for 13-20 reps

C routine 3-4 movements done nonstop for 2 giant sets

I don't do 'C' workouts for hips or lower back. On the 'C' days for those muscle groups, I just do a 'B' workout.

For HIPS and LOW BACK on a 'B' or 'C' workout, I choose just 1 movement and do 4 sets.

For ABS and FOREARMS, a 'B' workout is 2 movements of 2 sets each.

Right now I am on day 24 of the 31 day cycle and have gained almost 3 pounds to get to 217.2 pounds. My strength has shot through the roof for chest and shoulders and biceps, as well (all bodyparts have gotten stronger from workout to workout, but chest, shoulders, and biceps have improved the most with respect to strength) I did not test bodyfat, but my belt is fitting no tighter and my bodyfat % is holding fast, may even be decreasing a bit as I have noticed some good lower back definition (not a Christmas tree yet, but getting there!).

That's interesting that for the A-style workout you've reduced Dr. Hatfield's recommendation of 10-sets of 10-reps (at 60%) to 3-sets of 6-reps at 65% ... yet you're still seeing success.

Does success come from (simply) intentionally rotating varying styles, or do we need to be more aligned with the program as outlined in the source text in terms of workout volume and lift-intensity?

I did that because that is what is recommended in the revised workouts from the "ABC training made easy", i.e. the three sets of 6 reps @ 65% intensity.

I think this program could produce results 'indefinitely' or is as close to the 'perfect' bodybuilding routine as I have seen. By that I mean the 'style' or the concept. Certainly some tweaks may need to occur to the rep ranges, # of sets, etc. as I have done for my own training style and will continue to do. Even though that is the case, for sanity's sake after the 31 day approach I will spend 2-3 weeks doing something different, likely German Volume Training or something like that.

On page 42, where Dr. Hatfield is explaining "A" workouts, three muscle types are referenced:

• 10-reps | 10-sets | 60% for "Speed" muscles
• 12-reps | 08-sets | 70% for "Speed & Strength" muscles
• 08-reps | 05-sets | 80% for "Limit Strength" muscles

Further information is not provided about these three categories. I would be interested in any further clarification or delineation that might be offered by forum members.
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Giving the topic further review, I see that the "A" exercise descriptions for each muscle group (Figure 7-8, starting on page 44) clarifies the category delineations:

Speed
chest
biceps

Speed & Strength
shoulders
back
forearms
calves

Limit Strength
triceps
legs
abdominals

Please offer corrections for any erroneous info.

The clarifying article, ABC Training Made REAL Simple! Part I, by Frederick C. Hatfield II, recommends 3 sets of 6-reps for all "A" styled routines. No variations are prescribed for the three muscle classes. I would assume that Dr. Squat's reasons for the original recommendation are well founded. Would one still benefit by making adjustments?

Instead of performing 3-sets of 6-reps for all muscle groups, why not:

• 10-reps | 3-sets | 65% for "Speed" muscles
• 12-reps | 3-sets | 75% for "Speed & Strength" muscles
• 08-reps | 3-sets | 85% for "Limit Strength" muscles

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I hadn't notice that. Thanks.

Another distinction I'd not seen -- the fact that these two don't fit precisely in any of the three categories. Thanks again

Cool.

How about this, as a summary:

• 10-reps | 4-sets | 65% for "Speed" muscles
• 12-reps | 3-sets | 75% for "Speed & Strength" muscles
• 08-reps | 2-sets | 85% for "Limit Strength" muscles
• 12-reps | 4-sets | 75% for forearms
• 12-reps | 4-sets | 80% calves

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I train at home, alone. I have no idea how I might minimize the eccentric loads (as perscribed by the ABC system) when doing "A" type regimens. Any constructive ideas?

Great input. Thanks a bunch.

Let's do it!

Instead of performing 3-sets of 6-reps for all muscle groups, why not:

• 10-reps | 3-sets | 65% for "Speed" muscles
• 12-reps | 3-sets | 75% for "Speed & Strength" muscles
• 08-reps | 3-sets | 85% for "Limit Strength" muscles

Ah yes, my friend, NOW your mind and mine have become one! I was considering doing something very similar to this...although I would have it 4 sets of 10 @ 65% for speed muscles, 3 sets of 12 for speed and strength, and 2 sets of 8 @ 85 for limit strength in order to keep the ratios similar as they were in the original book. I.e .the speed muscles had more sets, the speed/strength had a few less, and the limit strength had far fewer sets.

Wait........ so for example, tries are limit strength. So, you would just do 3 sets of 8 @85%for tries. How would that be "abc" training ? 85% is kinda heavy, what would you do for your a and b days?

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Limit strength (and the other noted categories) are only considered for the "A" routines (not for "B"). Dr. Hatfield's recommendation for 'limit strength' muscles was:

8-reps | 5-sets | 80%

What we've done here is reduced the sets to just 3, but increased the weight another 5% of 1-rep max. That idea seems to jive with Fred II's 'REAL Simple' reduction. As has been noted by others in this thread, it's important to eliminate the eccentric load as much as possible.

The specification for "B" routines doesn't change by muscle type. The book says:

06-reps | 3-sets | 85% - explosive
12-reps | 3-sets | 70% - rhythmic
40-reps | 3-sets | 40% - slow
2-3 minutes rest between sets

Note that in "B" routines the eccentric portion of the lift is not avoided (but rather, embraced ).

In "ABC Training Made REAL Simple! Part I", this prescription is reduced to:

06-reps | 3-sets | 75% - bench press (barbell)
12-reps | 2-sets | 65% - chest flye (dumbbell)

In an attempt to more closely comply with the original specification, I proposed:

06-reps | 2-sets | 75% - bench press (barbell)
12-reps | 2-sets | 65% - chest flye (dumbbell)
40-reps | 1-sets | 40% - cable crossover

This keeps the work at a total of five sets, without losing the designed benefit of at least one 40-rep set.

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Cursor,
I have the book "Hardcore Bodybuilding: A Scientific Approach" right in front of me. I see now what your saying about limit strength on tries. Its been a long time since I read this book.

I've been using Fred II's approach that I got from the article section. Lately, I've been using 65% of max doing 3 sets, as prescribed by fred II's. I'm going to change this. I'm glad it was pointed out. I need to read this whole book again.

LOL ... me to
again, and again ...

I have read at least some of it every day for the past couple of months. Learn something new almost every day. I got my local bookstore to get a few copies in as well. Great great book.

Plus it is cool seeing classic bodybuilders like Berry Demey.....

I did the double split routine as described in the book, and I was not overtrained. HOWEVER, I did not do the routines themselves as outlined in the books. Generally I did the following:

A routines
3 sets of 6 reps @ 60-70% max

B routines
2-3 movements
3-4 sets per movement
Rep ranges varying from 5-25

C routines
2 giant sets of 3-4 movements
Reps of 4-8 (1st movement), 10-15 (2nd movement), 20-40 (3rd movements)
Rest between giant sets for ~ 90 seconds

To further muddy the waters, within the last 5 years someone asked if the workout in Bodybuilding A Scientific Approach on page 70 was still a good one. The Doc said it was a very good one, and is:

Sets 1-2, 4-6 reps, explosive, pausing between each rep.
Sets 3-4, 12-15 reps, moderate speed with a relaxation pause between reps
Sets 5-6, 20-25 reps, each rep done in a slow sustained fashion, no rest-pauses through the entire set.

Maximum weight with good form for each set.

Some of this may reflect in the "new" ABC program.

Ya, my page 70 has the performance profile on too. Do you have Hardcore Bodybuilding?

Bodybuilding: A Scientific Approach, 1984

Hardcore Bodybuilding: A Scientific Approach, 1993

Since the latter was the later, might it be the more updated -- or are they unique enough to warrant purchasing both?

A routines
3 sets of 6 reps @ 60-70% max

B routines
2-3 movements
3-4 sets per movement
Rep ranges varying from 5-25

C routines
2 giant sets of 3-4 movements
Reps of 4-8 (1st movement), 10-15 (2nd movement), 20-40 (3rd movements)
Rest between giant sets for ~ 90 seconds

Why such a wide gap in reps on your B days? Or did you do something like one movement has low reps, then another movement has higher reps. I'm just curious as to how your setting up B days.
Don

The wide gap is because the Hardcore Bodybuilding: A scientific approach recommends reps of around 5 for a few, around 12 for a few sets, and around 40 for a few sets in B workouts. Hence the wide range of reps!

I'm interested in your response to my questions above, Stan, about how the info on page 70 of the older book relates to the overlapping/cyclical layers of the "new" ABC program. Thanks.

Maximum weight with good form for each set.

Some of this may reflect in the "new" ABC program.

My son, Fred II, made those changes...maybe they worked for him. Nothing's written in stone, re the number of reps and sets...you can change things up as you see fit. The examples given are merely "templates."

Hi Fred
I am reading your book hardcore bodybuilding(brillant book) and your ebook " WEIGHT TRAINING AND NUTRITIONAL LOG" and i came across this paragraph on page 13.

Here’s an example of how to do a “C” workout with biceps dumbbell curls if your max is 80 pounds for one rep:
- 5 Reps/85% Max, Explosive Movements (e.g., 70 pounds)
- 12 Reps/75% Max, Rhythmic Cadence (e.g., 35 pounds)
- 30-40 Reps/40% Max, Slow, Continuous Tension Movements (e.g., 15 pounds).

How did you come up with these example weights i.e or the 12 rep set 35 pounds is closer to 44%. I am not trying to nit pick but should i be trying to reach up to the 75% mark on 12 reps sets for example.

Thanks
Mark