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225 by 20 reps?
Fri, 07/11/2008 - 1:04am — Big Brother
Hypothetical question: If you could bench 16 perfect, slow, controlled bench reps with 225, what training strategy would you use in a quest to add four more reps? Three sets of 20? Two sets of 30 with lighter weight?
Four sets of 15 with heaver weight? 20-rep dumbbell presses? A mix of all four?
How many total reps per workout would constitute "over training?"
Is weight gain a must? Creatine, "white magic" (a/k/a lots of skim milk), and Flintstone vitamins are the only supplements I have ever used. Is there anything else (legal) that would help give me a strength boost?
Also, how long do you think it should realistically take to go from 16 to 20 reps? Is two months reasonable or ridiculous? (I'm in my late 40s by the way.) Maybe I'm dreaming, but I think I can do this with the right training program. (I did get 17 with 225 a few times last year, but the form was so-so.)
Also, when pursuing this type of strength improvement (high reps), is it best to hit the bench twice a week or three times a week? I know common wisdom states you shoud bench twice a week, but this type of exercise is more of a "greasing the groove" type of thing, so wondered if it would be better to hit it every other day?
You guys are the best and have helped me achieve goals many times. Thanks for all of your previous tips. They ALWAYS help! I truly appreciate the quality of strength advice a lifter can get on this forum.
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225 by 20 reps?
My 225 rep max varies 4-5 reps just on the day. I'd think you'd want to train in the 15+ rep one bench day per week. Then focus on 3-5 reps on the second bench day.
Re: 225 by 20 reps?
Hypothetical question If you could bench 16 perfect, slow, controlled bench reps with 225, what training strategy would you use in a quest to add four more reps? Three sets of 20? Two sets of 30 with lighter weight?
Four sets of 15 with heaver weight? 20-rep dumbbell presses? A mix of all four?
>>>Collectively, "yes." Think more in terms of energy systems rather than a specific number of reps. So, anything over 15-20 rep range is what you're shooting for--that's when you're doing strength-endurance or "metabolic" work. 10 sets of 3-5 reps is also good for prepping for a money set of 20 reps, I've found. It also lets you train for strength at the same time. I recommend against dumbbell press because it's not specific enough to the 20-rep barbell press. Probably not a whole lot of carry over unless you have a specific weakness, say, off the chest in the bench.
How many total reps per workout would constitute "over training?"
>>>Depends on what you're ready for, really. Rather than guessing before hand, I suggest being aware of markers for overtraining due to volume, which include chronic pain and loss of appetite and a few others I can't remember. As soon as something like that creeps up, deload for a session or two and see how you feel.
Is weight gain a must? Creatine, "white magic" (a/k/a lots of skim milk), and Flintstone vitamins are the only supplements I have ever used. Is there anything else (legal) that would help give me a strength boost?
Also, how long do you think it should realistically take to go from 16 to 20 reps? Is two months reasonable or ridiculous? (I'm in my late 40s by the way.) Maybe I'm dreaming, but I think I can do this with the right training program. (I did get 17 with 225 a few times last year, but the form was so-so.)
>>>I don't see any reason you can't get another four reps in 4 weeks. Any additional time needed would probably be due to working out kinks in the program.
I did 20-rep squats for a while and chose a goal of 275 for 20. I got to 250 for 17 before I burnt out and had to bag it until next time. I progressed in weight rather than reps, starting with 225 for 20 and adding about 5 pounds a week. You might do well on the converse, starting with your goal weight of 225 and just seeing if you can get an extra rep in about once a week. Either way, I think it should be simple--you don't need bands and a box to rep out on 2 plates. Also, being that it's bench press, I reckon you could train it 2-3 times a week if you're in average-to-moderately-awesome shape.
The greasing the groove idea is good, but I don't know if it's conducive to very high rep sets, due to the soreness it can create. You could try every other day and just stop if you got too sore. Say you get in three sessions one week and you can't scratch the back of your head by Saturday. Then I'd say you should train twice weekly and take the second week a little easier due to the extreme soreness.
225 for 20 is bad-asss. Go for it.
225 by 20 reps?
[url]http://drsquat.com/node/3992]
See this thread.
I asked this question six
I asked this question six months ago and still haven't hit 20. Stuck on 18 1/2. Still trying to break that mental block.
My follow-up question is: When doing a 225 by 20 set, is it necessary to lock out every rep at the top? Or is it OK to stop an inch short of lockout to ease stress on the joints?
Just wanted your opinions. In a lot of the YouTube videos I have seen, the lifters do not seem to lock out most of the reps.
If you watch most videos,
If you watch most videos, guys don't come that close to locking them out. I've always done better if I lift heavy before I go for reps. I've gotten 17, and I don't really try for it. I did it fresh once and only got 14. Go figure.
I say with with high rep accessory work for lats, tris, and shoulders.
periodisation. Todds link
periodisation. Todds link also refers to it. maybe try just 10 on the monday (1 set ONLY say at 60% capability) (cobwebs out, 'CNS' rest (in terms of PR goal)) then give it 3 days, then go for it on thursday maybe even friday. back off on the volume on that particular week you intend to achieve that goal.
Simplicity Works
Speaking from my own experience, German Volume Training has worked wonders! For someone at an intermediate level of strength, it is almost guaranteed to yield a 10 percent strength gain in 4 weeks time! It is so simple. You don't have to nuke it to make it work.
If I were trying to up my 20 RM vs. limit strength, I would take a weight I could do for about 20 reps (which for you might be 215) and do it for 10x10 with about 90 to 120 seconds between sets. (With this level of volume, of course, you only bench once a week.) Then wk 2 you do 10x8, add 10-20 lbs. of weight and add 30-60 seconds of rest on the sets. Wk 3 you do 10x6, add another 10-20 lbs. of weight and add another 30-60 seconds of rest. (The rest periods are important enough that you should use a stop watch.) Week 4 is off, and week 5 I can almost guarantee you'll have your 10 percent increase! Test your new 20 RM, and I bet you set a new record! The thing I like about this method is that you get a lot of practice doing the actual lift that you're trying to improve on. I have used higher frequency programs where you bench as often as four times wkly with good results too, but my staple to training is the German Volume method. It really does work, whether you are going for limit strength or strength endurance.
In my experience strong
In my experience strong triceps with good endurance capacity is what is needed to rep high with 225 (my max is 33 reps). I forgot the dude who posted this tricep workout, but it will light your triceps on fire, lead to some good hypertrophy and help you smash through the 20 rep barrier. Tricep extensions 4 sets 8-10 reps supersetted with tricep pressdowns 4 set, 15 - 20 reps. You may need to ease into this and just do 2 - 3 supersets, before doing 4 complete supersets. I would do this after your regular bench routine (I'd recommend training chest, shoulders, and triceps together, to get full rest between workouts). Do this once per week. After a month or so go for the 225 again. Once you rep out as many reps as you can, drop 2 of the 45's and rep with 135 - if you can. Oh, yeah - get lots of protein!!
I asked this question six
I asked this question six months ago and still haven't hit 20. Stuck on 18 1/2. Still trying to break that mental block.
My follow-up question is: When doing a 225 by 20 set, is it necessary to lock out every rep at the top? Or is it OK to stop an inch short of lockout to ease stress on the joints?
Just wanted your opinions. In a lot of the YouTube videos I have seen, the lifters do not seem to lock out most of the reps.
And what method of improving it did you use unsuccessfully to achieve an increase of 2 and a half reps?
Just a note, a rep is like death or being pregnant. You either are or you aren't.
In my estimation, you would
In my estimation, you would need to lock out the weight. But that is besides the point. If you haven't progressed on your poundages in SIX MONTHS, my guess is you have been sticking with the same workout regime and it is no longer working for you. If you are doing the same thing over and over again and getting the same results (which is the definition of insanity) then you need to change it up. Put simply, if you are currently benching three times a week with a lower volume each day, try switching to to a higher volume once a week. Likewise, if you are benching once a week with a high volume and are stuck, try benching two or three times a week and splitting the volume up to those days. One or two inches for a lockout shouldn't really make much difference. And I would virtually guarantee you that if you did that 10x10 program I suggested, in four week's time, you would be doing 225 for 20. I used the higher volume/ ten set method and have had great results. Here are my results this far:
(Bear in mind that I am shooting for 1RM strength, but you would likely have similar results with 10x10 vs. 10x5)
11/24/08
Flat Bench 10x5
165 lbs. (My first workout in about a year and a half layoff)
01/14/09
Flat Bench, 10x2
225x2
275/ 5x2
285/ 3x2
295x2
After about 3 wks of doing 10x1, I will go back to 10x5, and I would be willing to bet I will use at least 245 for 10x5, which would represent an approximate 10 RM. That would represent an 80 lb. gain on my bench in about 2 months time! Granted, I am on a rebound with muscle memory, but there is NO REASON ON EARTH that an intermediate lifter should be stuck for so long. If you were benching 585 or something, a plateau like that might be understandable. Change what you are doing, and expect some RESULTS!